I lived with Mike Bickle and his family for several years….

If you’re an IHOP intern, upset with anyone who would speak out against Mike Bickle, against IHOP, then you need to really listen to the words you’re about to read.   The first portion of this appears to be lifting Mike Bickle up on a pedestal and singing his praises!  But the author of these scripts goes further on into his deeper thoughts about the teachings IHOP is promoting.

I lived with Mike Bickle and his family for several years in the late seventies and early eighties at which time I took care of Pat Bickle his younger brother that was a quadriplegic. We lived in a house in the western side of St. Louis which had as many as twenty five people mostly young men living on that property at one time. Now I tell you this because most of your history lesson on Mike begins with KC but the truth began a lot earlier. I got to know Mike and Pat about six months after they returned from Mike’s first attempt at building a church in Rosebud Mo. He was at this time connected to New Covenant Fellowship as a youth pastor and used them to jump start his second attempt which was South St Louis Fellowship, which after a year and a half he moved us all to a building that housed a dying congregation led by Gene Putnam. And in that blend we were introduced to a more radical form of Christianity that included dancing, and worshipping that were much more exaggerated than what we had already experienced.
This is the place where Augustine Acola first came into contact with Mike. It was claimed by Mike that Augustine walked in off the street and prophesied that he was to return to KC and begin a move of God that would sweep the nation. I was there and it was not that grandiose in fact it was very confusing at best but it came on the heels of Mike wanting to make a change from where he was because the leadership that he had formed had soured and rather than reform a new leadership he came up with a better idea which was to jump ship and return to KC with a fresh new perspective on how to start his own church un-tethered to any other denomination.

Now I want to pause here for a moment and say that I knew Mike and Diane personally for about ten years and I have never known there to be any other desire in either of them to do anything more than to dedicate their l
ives to God through Jesus Christ. But it has always been evident from as far back as I have known them that Mike has wanted to build a Movement that would make him great in the eyes of God. He wants to be numbered with the likes of Charles Finney and John Lake. It is His sole passion and desire is to be great in the Kingdom of God and to accuse him of anything less is foolishness and an argument that can’t be won. Mike is obsessed with that idea and he has gone to great lengths to accomplish it and believe me he has not asked anyone to do anything that he hasn’t done ten times over. In fact in the earlier days when Bill Kenney, Paul Coffman and several other Chiefs players were in attendance we would all say that he was the most intense man of God we had ever met.

Mike has always been a man of deep passion for God and the things of Christ and because of that he has a Christian charisma that has drawn believers from every nation together for the one purpose which is to glorify God on earth. However he is human and has developed a Christianity that is very fluid and capable of accepting a broad base of believers and in doing so he has become a target for everyone to shoot at but I can assure you it is not his intention to build a cult or control anybody. In fact I don’t think he even wants to be around people all that much anyway he would rather remain alone but in order to accomplish his goal which is to glorify the name of Christ he has to do so.
He doesn’t have a “cool aid” agenda nor does he have or ever had any malice in his heart for anybody or anything. He is a very kind person that has accomplished an incredible amount to further the Kingdom of God on earth and he has done so by becoming the topic of numerous blogs and essays and books that are all written with the assumption that they understand his motives. But in the pursuit to reveal his error in all that is written and said God has revealed the truth of his word. which has led to wonderment of God’s wisdom. I have never read so much deep and meaningful diverse literature in my 45+ years as a born again Christian as I have in the discussion of IHOP. It takes hours, days, weeks and months to assemble all the things that everyone has written and they would all make a great book that could easily change the lives of many down and out believers. I enjoy reading everything thing that you all have written and don’t disagree with much accept your interpretation of Mike’s motives and I say that because if I had my whole life laid out before the public as he has I would have fallen far shorter than anything he has ever done.

All of Mike’s short comings and interpretations of the Word are designed to accomplish his one desire and to know him would prove this out. God directed me to be a part of Mike’s church just as he had me attend Chuck Smith’s church in Costa Mesa Calif. called Calvary Chapel. Chuck had his critiques just as Mike has his but the bottom line is that God had me attend those two churches so that I could learn from their teachings as well as from the experiences that I would have with believers from their congregations. God is the author and finisher of my faith not Mike or Chuck or any other teacher whether false of true and all my experiences on earth test my heart, purify my faith and form me into the likeness of Christ.

To seek out the things that make a teacher false teaches me of the things that are true. We have all been taught very valuable lessons through our experiences with Mike but it was God who directed us to be a part of what he was doing and if there is anyone to blame it should be Him. In the book of Deuteronomy God said that He left the false teachers in the land to test (or purify) the hearts of his people. Mike’s flaws in his teachings because of his zeal has made him a great platform for discussion but again I assure you from the bottom of heart he is sincere in his faith and dedicated to one purpose which is to glorify the name of Christ on earth. Mike’s only goal is to be great in the Kingdom of God and if that means living in poverty, dedicated to prayer and fasting then he will do that more than any that have ever come before him.

Mike’s rendition of the Gospel of Jesus Christ found in IHOP will come and go, he will never call Jesus down out of heaven nor will he see the signs and wonders that he so desperately seeks for validation because it is a pipe dream that has been manufactured through his life time of trial and error much of which has left hundreds of casualties in its wake.

There are worse things that a person could do with their life than waste it in a prayer room. The fact that it will never amount to much will become evident but to sit in the presence of God is a good thing and should be encouraged.
Jesus however admonished us from the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 6 that …when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.[b] 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.All of which are now common practice used to pray at IHOP but if Jesus said it won’t work who am I to argue?

I am no longer affected in the least by what takes place at IHOP I wish them the best and pray that God will richly bless them in their endeavors. The Word of God is eternal and true and the truth shall be known.

I don’t, however, believe that IHOP is in any way an authentic move of God nor do I believe that it is conducive to any type of good spiritual health in fact in my experience I watched Mike form the foundations of his IHOPian passion for Christ theology and found it to be very destructive. He uses two things that are very alluring to the young and naïve. One of which is the promise of a perfect love affair that is obtained through continual adoration of Christ through prayer. The other is the promise of a ministry or a position of authority in the church through the sacrifices made in the prayer room.

He promises his followers a perfect love affair with God which appeals to young people because they are coming of age for romance but the reality is that an inordinate amount of people that have been an intricate part of IHOP from its inception are now divorced or in spiritual ruin a fact that is commonly ignored. You would be astounded at the amount of relationships and families that I have seen decimated by trying to obtain Mike’s doctrine of a perfect love affair. The divorce rate is shocking as well as the future destruction that is continually wreaked upon the children that were abandoned in the care of strangers while the well meaning parents sacrificed thier lives in the prayer room asking for things that never came to pass. For every one success story that comes out of IHOP there are hundreds of lives that lie in ruin abandoned and strewn in the gutters of want-a-bes and tagged and bagged as bitter and angry because God wouldn’t promote them.

There is nothing healthy wasting your life in a prayer room repetitively chanting prayers and songs that make no sense to God or man. the relationships that are borne out of that behavior are so conditional and volatile that they often times if not for the grace of God end in ruin.

I took part in many the initial activities that eventually led to the IHOPian theology and I can tell you by experience that there are no enduring positive effects but many ill effects that last for decades. My children speak with contempt about their brief experiences in those early days and had I not been grounded in God through my salvation going into those years I would have certainly been numbered among the many shipwrecked casualties of those days.

Sorry for seeming as though I was defending Mike or anything that he teaches I was merely making the point that God may be leading many of the young into that situation to test their hearts through that experience. But I want to warn them that the path of devastation that Mike and his false prophets have wrought in the lives of so many sincere and naive believers is a travesty.

The people that now buy into mike’s form of elitism think that they are exempt somehow from the destruction that he has wrought throughout his ministry this is because they do not understand how it took place. They think that through all the years of trial and error that they have now somehow perfected the form of prayer needed to call Christ down out of heaven which is the foundation of what they are attempting to do. Mike believes that through 24/7 prayer he and his elitists are capable of ushering in the end times and that God will validate it through the signs and wonders that they continually ask for but Christ said that “… it is an evil vial generation that seeks for signs and wonders.”

IHOP is truly built upon the shifting sand of and the ever changing wind of doctrine that mike has designed to allow him to like Teflon in the midst of all his lies. His claims to have had angelic visitations and being taken up into the third heavens all of which have since allowed him bump elbows with the likes of Benny Hinn and his band of wolves. I experienced firsthand and am continuing to experience the destruction that Mike’s IHOPian theology has wreaked upon many of my friends and I can also attest to much of the negative things that are written about him. believe me I don’t defend him sorry for giving that impression.

 One of the things I would most like to address about Mike Bickle is where the main source of his draw comes from for which he is able to continually re-man his staff and fill his prayer rooms with fresh blood in order to sustain his IHOPian movement. Mike has learned that his form of works based religion creates and incredibly high amount of turnover and In order to keep fresh knees at the altar he has had to learn how to replenish his stock. So he has developed a marketing plan that allows him to seasonally travel out to recruit new prospects through the seminar or convention circuit where he can appeal to the young and naïve as well as the transient evangelical. I have personally heard him say numerous times wants to attract the young and naïve because they are not yet soured by the deceptions of the church.

At the window of my house
I looked down through the lattice.
7 I saw among the simple (young and naïve),
I noticed among the young men,
a youth who had no sense.
8 He was going down the street near her corner,
walking along in the direction of her house
9 at twilight, as the day was fading,
as the dark of night set in.
10 Then out came a woman to meet him,
dressed like a prostitute ( a false Teacher) and with crafty intent.
11 (She is unruly and defiant,
her feet never stay at home;
12 now in the street, now in the squares,
at every corner she lurks.)
13 She took hold of him and kissed him
and with a brazen face she said:
14 “Today I fulfilled my vows,
and I have food from my fellowship offering at home.
15 So I came out to meet you;
I looked for you and have found you!
16 I have covered my bed
with colored linens from Egypt.
17 I have perfumed my bed
with myrrh, aloes and cinnamon.
18 Come, let’s drink deeply of love till morning;
let’s enjoy ourselves with love!
19 My husband is not at home;
he has gone on a long journey.
20 He took his purse filled with money
and will not be home till full moon.”

Mike searches for the young and naïve and has prepared a place them that they may “…drink deeply of love till the morning…” and says to them “…lets enjoy ourselves with love…” The passion for Christ is that alluring cry and he says that they are waiting upon the bride grooms return. But along with the young and naïve he has also learned how to draw upon the umpteen-million transient non-denominational evangelicals that church hop across America looking for the supposedly next big move of God. These people often times follow every wind of doctrine that comes along and even though they are quite well learned in the language of Bible still lack any Spiritual discernment to know right from wrong because they have squelched the voice of Truth by embracing the sea of lies. However they know their Bibles and can systematically decimate any logical argument that mature believers may have against their fluid doctrines.
It is from these two groups that he makes his greatest draw because neither of them has the maturity needed to discern the truth through the Spirit and therefore are very vulnerable to the love God that he presents through his passion for Christ message at IHOP. This is a very alluring message because it has so many earmarks for what might seem pleasing to God such as sacrifice, prayer, fasting and dedication to the Word. But if doing these things made one capable of pleasing God then we would have no need for Christ and his sacrifice.

Also there are so many places in the Word that disagree with many of the things that Mike now teaches such as his interpretation for what prayer is and how it is to be performed. In Matthew 6 Christ is laying down the basic to Christianity and he specifically addressed the way we are to pray when he said that “…when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.[b] 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

IHOPians are taught to stand up in their meetings that they may be seen by men and pray in vain repetitions that in their many words they might be heard. What part of ‘don’t’ does Mike not understand?

But one the most compelling things is that mature Christians that are guided by the Spirit of God don’t bear witness to what he is saying or doing . If a believer is truly born of the Spirit they will not be able to bear witness to what he is teaching because it is borne out of lies and deception. When a believer has the Spirit of God dwelling in them and they hear the truth, the Spirit bears witness to it and the heart follows. However if that Spirit does not dwell in a person but rather alongside them they are unable to fully discern much of what is taught and therefore can be deceived.

A person is not born again because they believe in Jesus Christ otherwise Satan himself would have hope but rather it is a work of the Spirit that through a gestation period where the heart and soul tested, tried, prepared and then brought forth into eternal life where we are then born of God and this is an event that must take place in order to be able to fully discern the truth. Mike does not teach about being born again because he may have never experienced it and therefore does not understand it. What he does teach through implication is that salvation can somehow be achieved in the prayer rooms of IHOP. In fact he believes that he can reach his goal of “being great in the kingdom” based upon his performance in the prayer room thus nullifying the cross of Christ.

IHOP is a works based movement that appeals to flesh through the religion of prayer and fasting which is a minor activity in the Word of God but Mike has made it into a major. He is deceived and deceives others because he can no longer discern the truth. His cronies and soothsayers clamor to be at his side because it is him that they have set their hope in for salvation and even though they may have some knowledge of the Word they do not know Jesus Christ whom is the Word.

The Spirit is consistent in all things which mean that He will not bear witness to one that something is not true and to another that it is and the young and naïve and the deceived are both very susceptible to deception of the love gospel that Mike presents because neither is yet born again. They may believe in a form of the truth but are not yet at a place where they can fully discern it and in the mean time are lying with mike …till the morning comes.

Mike because I honestly do love him and hope for his best, but he is very deceived by his own thoughts of grandeur. Pat (Mike’s brother) and I both confronted him often times about his complete disregard for people in his pursuit of making a movement but he shunned us both for years. Pat died having never been healed but he was more in tune with God than Mike ever was and many of the things that he challenged Mike with often caused a great rift in the family of eight brothers and sisters. Pat never believed the soothsayers or anyone else that proclaimed Mike’s greatness because he had the discernment of the Spirit and knew in his heart that Mike and his cronies were deceived.

I often heard Mike’s story of salvation and strongly felt that it was merely an introduction into the faith something we have all experienced but there was never a mention of a time where he talks about being born again. Whereas on the other hand Pat, who suffered a life changing injury, had that experience and quite often shared it with anyone that would listen. Mike however was not into the born again thing but rather was from a very young age always bent on building; first a church that he could call his own then a movement that he could be the founding father of and he learned how to do it at the expense of thousands of innocent believers that trusted in his form of Christianity.

He knows and understands the Word but does not exude any of the characteristics that depict a true born again believer because he so readily accepts all the false teachers and soothsayers now surround him. He also lacks any real sense of spiritual discernment and will lie about things that are blasphemous before God. For Him to make the statement that he was taken up into the third heavens and that Jesus himself told him and IHOP ‘to be patient’ will yield an eternal Judgment that I don’t want to see and now fear for the condition of his eternal soul. Also to say those things without any type of gut check from Holy Spirit is a definite sign that the condition of his salvation is suspect at best.

If Mike should ever read any of these things he will know exactly who I am because long before I ever shared them with you or anyone else I confronted him first, face to face and he wouldn’t listen to them then and probably won’t listen now.

This entire writing are from Truthspeaker’s blog and obtained with the authot’s permission as well as the Truthspeaker’s permission.  All comments to these posts are welcome.


358 thoughts on “I lived with Mike Bickle and his family for several years….”

  1. p.s.

    How can a young person live a clean life? By carefully reading the map of Your Word. I’m single-minded in pursuit of You; don’t let me miss the road signs You’ve posted. I’ve banked Your promises in the vault of my heart so I won’t sin myself bankrupt. Be blessed, God’ train me in Your ways of wise living.

    Psalm 119: 9-12 The Message

    I don’t recommend The Message for daily reading for various reasons, but this passage really stuck out to me. I found myself thinking, ‘If only the IHOP people would pray this prayer’…instead of “praying” contemplatively – which is such a waste of time and effort. You join yourself with New Age every time you lift up contemplative “prayers”.

  2. If this helps, he’s been on report church abuse list since 2000 and tried to correct situations, taken them public to: Not to mention, had a bad experience 2004 at KC and at SM-IHOPrayer/PIHOPrayer-very sad, behavior is more like witches/warlocks with these people.
    David Wilkerson, Dr. James Dobson, C. Peter Wagner, Rick Joyner, Editor of Charisma/Christianity Today, George Barna, Dr. Ron Enroth, (there’s over 30 in the list).
    Mike was told of negative emails of people’s experiences (copied in the men).
    He’s gotten a copy of this also along with the list: (If, you want “Report Church Abuse List”, let me know.

    I asked a friend to give me a definition of a cult and he did


    My personal definition of a cult: A Church or Religious Movement that teaches ‘aberrant theological positions or truths’ and deviates significantly from the recognized mainstream fundamental church doctrines of Church history.

    Some Unsafe groups or “cults” often abuse and exploit their members. This abuse may occur in the areas of finances, physical labor, child abuse and neglect, medical neglect, sexual exploitation and/or psychological and emotional abuse.

    Cult usually has the following characteristics:

    A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.

    A process is used: coercive persuasion or thought reform.

    Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

    The leader is usually alone at the top with a small inner-circle of managers who control the followers who are all at the bottom. There is little if any accountability in their overriding philosophy and daily activities.

    And any member of the group who questions or doubts the authority of the leader is likely to be labeled wrong, rebellious, suppressive, negative and in some situations even “demon possessed” or “satanic”.

    Cult apologists have literally said that the word ‘cult’ is a four letter word,” and should be replaced by the politically correct title “new religious movement” (NRM); a complete and utter disdain for correction.

    Most christians are brainwashed and can’t think for themselves and nor do they want to-they do not research a matter and they worship a leader over God/Jesus/Holy Spirit they depend on him to give them the Bible and he doesn’t he gives them stories and they don’t question they could have been born and died in the movement and they would have never gone through the Bible completely once and they’re content to live with that and not question where the money goes and when you tell them the truth they don’t want to hear it, they do not believe you; they’d rather have their head in the sand than to deal with real and reality-your just to content to show up every Sunday Morning/Evening and Wed evening and not question hopefully your not following your corrupt leader over the cliff and into heal. Is prayer #1 in your church, do you sit under a man who prays 6-12 hours a day (rather than preys on the people). Somehow you never question Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola or Churches That Abuse by Ron Enroth (google and read his articles), Don’t Call me Brother-or Marjoe Documentary, Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, and on and on it goes, just contact Wall Watchers, Sheepleblog.net, http://www.rickross.com, Trinity Foundation, Dallas Texas, archives of newspapers on church corruption and on and on it goes…

    I asked a friend to give me a definition of a cult (I know he was thinking of VCF when he gave me and I related it to the Foursquare and Assemblies (“assassins”) of God (they gave you their god, their jesus and their unholy spirit and the majority of the churches operate like this (most of them have their own agenda-it’s man, carnal, flesh and not of God the Father). What’s worse is they will lie because they do not want you as a number going away (# of your family because of the money). Ask questions-watch you will get watched, spies put around you or asked to leave or run out of the church…(thrown out and threatened with police-see Tammy’s experience, all five reports in ripoffreport.com in the search box: type John Paul Jackson-very interesting read on false/abusive ministries that people keep attending and giving money to).

    They say you are not to come up against church leadership (which means they are in sin), and also “prayer was not important” at the time there leadership had cancer and that also means they are in sin, want to be in sin and worse John said that before he died that they lied to him being in sin. If, you were to do a survey on the churches that I attended, and their families such hypocrisy/heresy of how they kept the people sick, bondage and coming back every week for more-not healed up-very sad the lack of fruit of the church and your content to have it so. RB

  3. wow you live your life to tear down other people…

    just saying.
    we are either building, encouraging, comforting the body of christ.


    we are stealing, killing, and destroying the body of Christ.

    the eye can’t say to the mouth I don’t need you
    the arm can’t say to the foot I don’t need you.

    whether wrong or right, I need you and you need me.
    we love Jesus, we should love each other. and build each other up.

  4. No, Charlie, I don’t “live my life to tear down other people”.

    Let me ask you this: If you saw someone about jump off a boat in shark infested water, are you telling me you wouldn’t say something (anything!) to help steer them away from it? So what about the Bereans, Charlie? And what about Jesus giving warning after warning, telling people to watch out for false prophets? ANY ministry that promotes contemplative prayer is promoting a NEW AGE practice (TM) – they’re just sugar coating it by calling it “prayer”, but it’s not. It’s TM plain and simple.

    You’re right, Charlie. It’s not the hand, foot, big toe or heel of Christ. It’s the BODY. And this part of the body is trying very hard to warn other parts of the body to cling to Him and not teachings leading AWAY from Him.

  5. It is obvious that you don’t agree theologically with Mike Bickle or IHOP. Just as there are separate denominations, there are differing views in christianity. However, as christians, unless someone is in blatant sin, we do not need to attack them and we need to realize that we’re on the same team. We will never defeat the enemy if we cannot come together in unity and humility. You will have thousands of years together in Heaven to discuss your differing views with Mike although then it won’t be an issue any longer. Please put aside your judgments, walk in Love, and realize that neither you nor Mike have the full revelation or whole Truth. Please stop damaging the Body of Christ.

  6. So if a Mormon sings the praises of God and Jesus, we’re supposed to just pat them on the back and say, “Job well done”?? Or do we sound the alarm, warning others.

    Yor thoughts? Because I see NO way that warning the Body of Christ causes any harm at all. We’re actually called to do so.

  7. Please, don’t waste your time and focus on people who don’t even know Jesus or never heard of Good News. I am not saying you are right or wrong but don’t we all need to spread God’s Word as much as we can?

  8. Mormons are not christians; they do not believe in the basic tenents of the faith. Mike Bickle is a christian because he professes that Jesus Christ, born of a virgin; Son of God; died and risen; is Lord. He, along with you and I, is not perfect; he is a man and fallible; but he is a christian and that makes him a brother. And that’s why we don’t slander and attack each other. They will know that you are My disciples by the love that you have for one another.

    I am sure that there were some things that you experienced that were painful or that saddened your heart; Jesus wants to heal you. He wants to set you free from the bitterness and the feeling that you have to warn the world. Your theological viewpoints/differences are not tenents of scripture and therefore are not valid for labeling IHOP as a “cult” nor are they the the basis for judgment. Paul said not to judge others; that he doesn’t even judge himself but also acknowledged that God would one day judge him.

    After attending IHOP for almost a year now, I can say firsthand that everyone I have met so far that lives here and attends IHOP is very stable emotionally, spiritually, and mentally. They exhibit fruits of love, kindness, meakness, and self-control. They walk in relationship with the Lord in maturity and voluntarily serve others and their community. They do not live extravagantly yet give generously. I do not know many of the short-term students that may come for a 3-6 month time period so I cannot comment on them.

    My sons are in the youth group and have found kind, humble friends that are completely normal, that love God, have lots of fun, and serve each other. They’re not wild and crazy or wierd. Our family has had a very positive experience and have appreciated the Biblical teaching and the centrality of Christ in teaching and song. Sorry that your experience was so different.

  9. I am sooooooooooo confused. I am Korean living in Seattle. So many leaders and other Christians in my church LOVE IHOP and Mike’s teachings. I attended their One Thing Conference back in 2007 I believe. But Mike has been rebuked for being a false teacher by so many other Christians as well and I have no idea who’s talking the truth.

    Is IHOP a cult or not? If he’s a cult, by what standard?
    I know that a cult can be defined if someone denies the gospel, trinity (God = Jesus = Holy Spirit) and being saved only by faith.

  10. I was a part of Kansas City Fellowship way back in the old days in 1983. Yes, that long ago. I remember the growth, the amazing teaching and the start of the school there, which my daughter attended for a while. I am not writing this to dispute anyone’s opinions and whatever judgements are made. I can simply attest that God started an amazing work, a powerful work there. I do feel like there was a shift as the years went by and the interpretations of God’s Spirit that no doubt was moving, became somehow misguided. I left in the early to mid nineties because of that. I feel very sad about all of this but I do know that God did a major planting in my heart of His word, and of worship like I have never known anywhere. It was a powerful time in many of our lives. Mike Bickle’s teaching was truly full of revelation I believe directly from the Holy Spirit. I do think it’s a cautionary tale of how human’s can derail and eventually mis-intererpet what God is actually trying to do, get stuck on one or two notes which may be valid and powerful, but miss the symphony that could have been.

    I attest to the wounded among that movement, however for myself I learned to follow Christ and discern for myself. I am grateful for Mike Bickle, the Mike Bickle I knew and loved. I hope and pray for the Body of Christ that nothing is wasted, even the prayers that those offer at IHOP. I don’t really want to take anyone’s inventory here, I don’t think that honestly is the right spirit and it only harms were they needs to be healing.

  11. Thank you for your thoughts on this. The Lord has had me praying that, “The IHOP leaders, especially Mike Bickle, would return to His Complete Truth and their eyes would be opened to the error.”
    I have seen some truly loving believers in Christ who’ve come from IHOP, and where I put my arms up in a blocking motion is where they mix error in with the Truth. Because I see where they are not necessarily ‘discerning’ Truth when they’re still practicing contemplative prayer – identically to TM. OR when they’re saying,”there’s nothing wrong with it” whether they do it themselves or not. That bothers my spirit greatly.

  12. JJ, you’re half way right. The Trinity IS the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but IHOP mingles New Age teachings in WITH the Truth. Jesus warns us there will be great deception in the end times. And there’s a lot of deception going on at IHOP – such as contemplative prayer. That’s really just TM when you’re having to control your breathing, be in a relaxed position etc in order to do it. Gods Word tells us to be instant in season and out – not just when they’re breathing or sitting correctly – and NEVER using vain repetitions as the heathen do. (That’s also part of CP.)

  13. We do need to spread His Word – quite right. We also, however, need to warn other believers when the Lord shows us deception entering the body of Christ. Wouldn’t you agree with that?

  14. People of God, watch you tongue and language against men and women of God. IHOP has nothing to do with new age. This is a new generation in love with Christ. The things they pray is out of the Word God. Don’t be stuck in your old rusty thinking and miss the movement of God. You must be able to discern the times and seasons we are in. You can’t keep on praying the same way you did in 1983. Instead of poising peoples mind, my advise to you is pray for revelation and for the truth to prevail. BE aware that the pharisees who thougt they knew God soo much missed what the Father did through the son because they couldn’t discern. We are one body, if anything we should seek the face of the Lord concerning matters of His body, instead of polluting others mind.Everything you do or say, you will be held acountable for before the great throne of El Elyon love sis N. from Holland

  15. Ps. David and others in the bible meditated! The devil steals ideas from God and uses for his ‘kingdom’. When you see new age meditating, its because the devil realized the power that was in meditating and taught his followers to also do so. He is a COPYCAT!! He knows the power in the things of God. If you dont go with flow of the Spirit. You will miss the boat!! Again in i urge you to ask the Holy Spirit for revelation.

  16. JJ: I am a mature christian believer, have been saved for 30+ years, married for 27 years, and have 5 grown children who are all christians. I have been in women’s, marriage, and family ministry for over 10 years and have attended church for over 50 years now. Let me assure you, IHOP is not a cult. They do not teach breathing techniques or TM, but they do teach living by the Sermon on the Mount, giving, serving, loving, prayer and fasting, and they read the Bible a lot.

    We must adhere to Biblical Truth; not judge solely on a feeling or an opinion or solely on what the Spirit tells us because we can be misguided unless we are rooted and grounded in the Word. We must adhere to sound doctrine especially because we are in the last days. I highly recommend that you go to http://www.mikebickle.org where his sermons are recorded and print off sermon notes, listen to the messages, and read the Bible scriptures to judge for yourself. God is not the author of confusion.

    But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. James 3:17-18

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Galatians 5:22-23 NIV

    Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 1 John 4:19-21 NIV

  17. To Annunk:
    Every effective minister and ministry God has raised up has it’s accompanying Satan-appointed tormentors and apparently you are the appointed one for Mike Bickle and IHOP. The Matthew 6 scripture does not apply to corporate prayer in a sanctuary, nor does “vain repetition” apply. The repetition during worship & intercession at IHOP are not “vain” nor “in vain”.
    As for marriages breaking up, there are myriad reasons for this, sadly something that happens in all churches, and is not necessarily the fault of the ministry at IHOP.
    A passion for Jesus Christ should not be faulted but encouraged. God hears our cries and sees our hearts and He does love us passionately, so much that He went to the cross willingly, suffered greatly and shed his blood. Our rendering the same passionate love unto Him should be the norm and should be encouraged, not criticized by trolls on internet blogs such as yourself.
    To accuse Rev. Bickle of not being born again is judgmental, as God ultimately is the only one who knows for certain who is born again and who isn’t, whether you lived with the Bickles for 10 years or not. You can’t know that. He certainly displays the fruit of being born again but YOU show the fruit of condemnation and judging of others.
    As for the 24/7 prayer at IHOP not producing anything, how could you possibly know this Sir? I have heard testimonies of healing, salvation and other answers to prayer in this and IHOP ministries in other places than Kansas City.. My heart rejoices that God’s people are praying! That there are young people spending their time & resources gathering to pray instead of pursuing worldly attractions like most of their peers! Lord continue and grow this work!
    Mr. Annunk, you have wasted many years judging Mike Bickle. I suggest you go and spend your time in more wholesome pursuits. For one,you might take the time to have your head examined as I suspect you may have a touch of mental illness with all your repetition and long rambling prattle that does more harm than good.

  18. I don’t know anything about this IHOP movement. I remember Mike from New Covenant – The Sheep Shed! The Bickle house was always full of people. I spent a lot of time there & probably know the writer! I got saved in 1978 at New Cov. I loved Pat and his sister, Stacy. and I remember Mike telling Diane he would rather his wife spend time in the Bible over cleaning the house! She liked that! I miss those days! Worship, teachings, friends. Bloom where you’re planted was on the wall. I learned so much there. Thanks Mike! I love you all! 🙂

  19. Sunnyhill,
    “Satan-appointed tormentors” aren’t ‘people’ according to scripture and especially not born again believers. Re-read what I’ve written about vain repetitions in prayer. I connected it with contemplative prayer/TM and wasn’t referring to anything having to do with public prayer but rather, once again contemplative prayer-slash-TM.

    Regarding my sentiment about Mike Bickle, I do not hate the man, nor do I believe him to be an unbeliever. I do, however, Lift him in prayer on a DAILY basis asking God to remove the blinders from his eyes because I believe he is very deceived and leading others down the same path.

    Lastly, if you’ll read the last little paragraph on the story above, you’ll note that i, Annunk, did NOT write that story but borrowed it from another blog with the authors’ permission.

    You said your heart rejoices that kids are at IHOP rather than pursuing worldly attractions like their peers. Do you feel that way about Mormon kids when their at their ‘place of worship’? Again, I’m talking about contemplative/TM/New Age prayer at this time.

    I wonder if the Bereans had people accusing them of having psychiatric disorders? Let me ask you something — if you saw your brother stumbling or about to make very dangerous choices in their spiritual walk — choices that could potentially put them in touch with demonic entities, would you just sit back and do nothing?

  20. Mike Bickle all those highly gifted and financial secure ministers are worshipping money, not God.

  21. Everyone keeps saying that Mike lives in a very modest house and drives a modest car. So they’d argue with you on that.

    But whose name is on the titles to IHOP and everything in it IF the place were ever to be liquidated? Never mind what his wife does. That’s a- whole-nother subject 😉

  22. Mike and Diane Bickle are the real deal. They are some of the most humble people I’ve ever met. They live to honor Christ and to make His name (not their’s) known in the world. I’ve known them for almost 8 years now and there’s no one else’s leadership I’d rather be under. I’m so blessed to call them my pastors. They know the Word because they spend time in it. Every message that Mike gives is completely backed up with Scripture. Everyone gets a copy of his notes and he encourages all of us to dig into the Word ourselves, to know why we believe what we believe.

    I think those of you who are cutting down this amazing man of God should go back to the Scripture and read James 3. I also know that even if he ever did read this article, he wouldn’t even start to defend himself. The only thing that matters to Mike is living his life for Jesus and bringing Him the glory. He’s got the most careful and guarded tongue of any man I’ve ever met. He’s completely sold out to Jesus and that’s why so many love him. He models what he teaches. That’s something I highly respect and love about him and his wife.

  23. Renee, you said that Mike encourages everyone to “dig into the Word” yourselves since all his messages are backed by scripture. Do you actually DO that? Contemplative prayer is not scripturally backed, but Mike teaches that – is why I ask.

    Did you actually read this entire post?

    Galatians 2:13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy; shows us that people were deceived even as the apostles walked and taught among them – so how is it that that couldn’t possibly happen with Mike?

  24. Hi Renee,
    Thank you for giving your viewpoint as a person who knows the Bickle’s today personally. I’ve always had the utmost respect for you and your deceased husband Derek so what you wrote carries a lot of weight to me.

  25. I am disturbed when I hear someone defend Bickle. He did have good intentions 30 years ago.
    when he stepped into the financial 1% his heart was changed ,it became greedy and impatient for the return of Jesus and his ears arent just itching thier on fire.
    IHOP members: Why do you refuse to google his past and read the facts? Its because you want what he has and no longer can see the diference between good and evil.

    Ihop blogs:

    1. please forgive the grammar. If I had known how many people were struggling in their life because of the experience at Kansas City Fellowship during the 80′s I would have better grammar and a blog like this.
    Mike Bikle is important because hes still alive but most of his lies have died. There was a large prophetical storm that came through kansas city and raytown in the eighties, It affected many churches. I will say that the church I belonged to as an adolescent in the 80′s is a cult, but the man that was the pastor, John Harvey-The Church Of The Living Word jokes about it now, he left the church in 1989 and it fell apart in weeks, I grew up from birth with his daughter as my best friend and neighbor to all our church members, Mike Bikle, Paul Cain, & Bob Jones had influence there and would speak as guest’s. Its important that I say now that the only true missionary I know is john harvey his wife sharon daughter joy and sons john & jeff. I dint know at the time why they moved because I was lied to ,but I did know where, Guatemala where they currently live in a small house with no objects of money, They have opened a school and hospital ,not the kind that makes money but the kind that spends money to save people from starvation and ignorance not just from hell.
    OK, with all that out of the way the reason I write now is because I knew there was something very wrong in the church again I was lied to. I walked in to church while having a sunday picnic and everybody was laying hands on my mother and speaking in tounges it wasnt for the children, but since I was so close I was quickly informed that they were pulling the demon out of my Mother, the reality which I didnt discover till my late 20′s was infidelity not from my mom but my Dad and the Church secretary had slept together, my mom knew this and thank God she doesnt loose sleep over this like I do but this is only a small part of the dis-function. She did not have a demon in her, my Dad was the pastor for the kids-he was good at telling a story but arent they all, this is what its all about. I attended full faith church of love Ernie Gruen married my parents (they divorced 1 year later & my mom remarried in 8 months to her now husband of 22 years, many woman ,drinks ,and lies later my dad is still single and still tells a good story.
    I need to get together with someone from the area, I know there are many people that went through what I did and are on the same path of discovery.
    I was deceived again in 2003 when my dad brought me to IHOP in Grandview he said “It’s a new type of church, and there are many woman” he was only right about one & at the time I didnt mind, I was saved again and near a beautiful woman, but I recognized to many faces for it to be new, I left because of “other interest”
    My life has been a series of misguided decisions , but I always found my way. Now I have found my purpose. I have spent most of my life looking for answers. I dont care so much about the doctrine of IHOP as the ignorance of the people whos fate, can be predicted, either death or destruction.
    I believe that Bikle once may have had a pure heart maybe long ago, but I have looked into his eyes just months ago and I see only greed and ego, he has been turned, I think he is capable of more damage than we think especially if the wrong people come to power here in the U.S.
    Bikle doesnt recognize me and I dont show my last name & would not use it if asked. I am close to him, I know some family members that never get mentioned ,but have seen Bikles success from a different side , the real one Money Greed and deception.
    This just shouldnt be, thanks to groups like anonymous and occupy it doesnt have to be, If the lies are to be exposed it will take an army, and theres one waiting.
    I started the twitter hashtag #kcfalseprophets a month ago after years of questions and research, I hope for a response.

    2. the hashtag bio is below
    I support the movement known as “Anonymous”.
    My goal is to expose the false prophets of the Kansas City Evangelical Christian movement.
    Why? I grew up in a cult/neighborhood church in the late 80′s. The men (false prophets) of the church are all but ONE dead; unfortunately the remaining member of “kansas city fellowship” has started another cult, and it is big million dollar big(a year).
    This “church” called Ihop (not the pancake house) the International House Of Prayer or their new one kc forerunner fellowship.
    Why not just leave them alone? I cant.
    The key word here is “International”
    This is how the founder and current pastor M.B. funds this Doomsday cult of martyr’s.
    90% of the members are in their twenties, and they think their training to be missionaries, but the “end times” have been prophesied by the pastor.
    Fear, immigrant small business loans, lies and religious visas are the tools of the new face of Christianity. This movement has roots in almost every church in America. Know a false prophet? You can trace him back to “Kansas City Prophets”
    Now for the good parts, Number one sign of a cult- Isolationism, the members have been instructed to unplug all media outlets(maybe the 500, 000 post on Google haunt him, but he doesn’t have to worry.
    This is how it works, he calls his church a missions school, so internationally anybody can get a religious visa from almost any country as long as they have an institute to accept them (IHOP) then when they arrive here usually with nothing but belief until M.B. helps them all get the small business loan for their new business “A Missionary”
    Conveniently a semester of bible thumping cost the same amount as the basic loan, once they give it to the church there broke hungry and immobile so they have to rely on the church. This is how over 50, 000 young adults are living right now right here.
    They are also linked to “The Promise Keepers” I know it was once a simple movement with a good promise, all men called to treat their families better, now they have 500, 000 men that don’t know the promise has changed.
    Promise Keepers is now basically “IHOPS” personal sleeper cell.
    Why should you care? This man “Mike Bikle” will unite his forerunners(martyr’s) will Islamic Jihad and bring it to our shores.
    He is trying to force the sky open and bring “armagedon” in nuclear war only the 1% survive.
    I don’t hate God or Christians, but I knew this man was a fraud since I was 10.
    This cult is very dangerous if you Google it you’ll see, if you go to their service which I recommend, you will find great rock music 24 hour “Healing Rooms” but please don’t drink the kool-aid just listen. We need to expose this man to his followers, one thing young adults cant do is turn of their smartphone so twitter could stop a war, one that nobody but jihadist are talking about, until 1999 when he had his 10th vision in 10 years. He sees himself as the right hand of Jesus and possesses “The Holy Gost”
    We must stop this please Google this and read about the families turned and destroyed, mothers posting on Google about their child no longer caring about them and feeling superior.
    Ihop members, this is to YOU, I know Bikle better than anyone in that church and he will lead you to death not the rapture.
    its in Grandview MO 2 miles west of 71 off red bridge rode its on a hill on the left in a strip mall, don’t be fooled they own 3 square miles of Grandview and used criminal tactics to buy out all the nearby businesses.
    It was allegedly a vision of the physical manifestation of Christ who gave him the Idea, that’s a lie it wasn’t his idea. The real missionaries I knew left in 1988 because of this, they went to Guatemala built a school and hospital all from donations and the’re still there and still poor and still good people.
    This man caused the end of my church when I was 11 then I was thrown into larger cults, then I rebelled HARD. The one Pastor that ousted him died in 2009 his name was Ernie Gruen, but he was a smart man, he wrote an in depth report titled “the abbreverant practices of KC Fellowship”.
    His son is still standing up for his dad.
    I intend to start where Ernie IHOPKCGruen left offl sean smith on facebook
    below is a video about mike bikles current open vision for America.

  26. To Annuck,
    This is only my second blog I’ve ever written (I’m 35) I Didn’t take the time to read over what was an un-edited brainstorm; however I have now, and it’s apparent that a grammar check and removing the redundancies is important if I’m to reach blogers in this OCD world of internet writing. I do absolutely understand the importance of this but its takes a few to get use to it.
    Below is my new post “Call to arms” ,it was twice as long with 20 run-ons and spell-check was wore out! I hope it’s more focused.
    Some of it sounds the same but it has a different purpose. I feel like I need to establish my history with this to be credibly ,and I’m busy while I type. It will take a little while.
    I’m more of an on the ground activist which will be useful and an armature hacktivist both of which are the necessary tools to expose someone these days, Bickle has his own hackers, allegedly in Argentina………….this has been picked up on the radar of “Anonymous” an unlikely but important ally in exposing deception. A DDOS attack would be justified at this point.

    I’m posting the below statement everywhere I can find someone in need, Bickle has become lazy as well as his flock. A few good men and woman, vetted of course could penetrate this cult. Knowledge is power, and we have it all
    Please consider this.
    This is a call to arms.
    sean smith on Facebook (nullifly onthewall)
    This is all so very demonic, “Happiness In Slavery” (T.Reznor)

    I grew up in a dangerous religious environment connected to Mike Bickle in the 80′s I was just a kid ,but the deception stuck with me. In 1989 why family ,friends and church were destroyed in weeks. At the time I didnt know why but its all to clear now. Ive had the misfortune of attending IHOP in 2003 not recognizing Bickle. I was turned off immediately. For the past few years I have put the pieces together. It all makes sense now.
    I read through many blogs about this and, I realize most people are just arguing scripture and defending their beliefs, let us not forget no matter how right it is, a belief in something unseen is by definition irrational making these issues important 2nd to action. I agree, the points made in most of these blogs are interesting and some based in historical fact.
    If its not obvious to someone that IHOP is a cult there is not much hope for saving them. To save these poor young people from a life of bad decisions, regret ,and insanity is to dismantle the very church they believe in. IHOP has become victim to Bickle’s greed and his growing impatience with God. He is trying to force the sky open .
    The concern I have is very extreme ,but I have spent most of my life sorting through this mess. I sometimes feels disgraced that I once fell victim to this and feel I could only be with someone of the same background, this is a consequence of my upbringing and my decision as an adult to jump in-read later still affects me today @32. My consequences are nothing compared to what the IHOP flock will go thru whether the church is dismantled, discredited or my biggest concern, grow in size and occult practices.
    IHOP needs to be ended, no more excuses.why? Bickle will do anything to keep his new status in the top 1%, Money is his God ,politics is on his back-burner until the right people come into power in the U.S.
    He is capable of uniting his cult with the cult of Mormonism and other faiths based on modern false prophecy, bringing jihad to our shores, he will accomplish half of his dream (Becoming a God). Who will survive a nuclear war and then own the world able to fulfill the vision of the Illuminati ,the new world order? The 1%
    . Lets stop comparing scripture and start protesting. the hacktivist group Anonymous would be a great ally in this. A movement to stop IHOP is emerging on Facebook “stop ihop cult” I can be found on twitter @shawn35null


    Good news and bad news KMBC just did an editorial at 10:05 pm on “The International house of prayer” Michael Morre an IHOP member admits to being in a cell of this cult and have been charged with 1st degree religiously motivated murder of a young girl , forgive me for not remembering her name. The begining of the end of IHOP is here. They had 10 minutes of coverage and ousted as a cult ,and the “cell” guilty of murder had religious poems and plans for the murder on they’re Ipad. This is despicable. I felt this would happen just not this soon. The police have the iPad . remember, these young people as sick and purely evil act is in my opinion 50% motivated by Mike Bickles visions. This is why we must stop this church. they are buying Grandview. This can not be allowed. We must protest. We must fight for the desperate souls. We all that care about these people need to harness the power or Twitter and I call to everybody who reads this “If you really care as I do then tweet this news post hash-tags like #IHOP #anomymous #anonopps #anon99percenter. We can not do this alone Bickle is at his strongest. He will fight this, but the flock will hear the news. they will be scared. they will turn their phones back on. They are on Twitter and many of them will now listen. This is our opportunity to stop this madness and perversion of God’s word. To achieve this you must tweet as much as you can with appropriate anonymous hash-tags there are many. They will fight with us. Now is the time. Tweet to save lives. Stop this cult this is your duty and my calling. Take this seriously. If you and I do not act already knowing what we know this would be on my shoulders as well as yours. Action now is required. This is something The Holy Father Wants but so does Bickle. They have stepped into a new realm an………………..Anonymous…Realm. They will not forget this. They are watching. IHOP has jumped u

  28. 1Peter 4:7-11The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.Be hospitable to one another without complaint.As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen

  29. Love that scripture. Thank you. But I have a question for you. Would you have also “told” that same scripture to Paul when he was “naming names” of the false teachers practicing during his time? Doesn’t God call us to be Bereans? Are you practicing Acts 17:11 yourself?

  30. To answer your first question; If I discerned the same things I discerned when reading this blog, yes I would. God does call us to test what we are told and taught. I do seek out scripture, although I can’t say that I always have. I am a work in progress much like Mike Bickle AND you.

  31. None of us are completed in Christ yet. God continues His work daily in His children. I do look at the use of mysticism at IHOP, however, and am deeply concerned with the deception that’s permitted-WELCOMED in thru its use – and that concerns me very deeply.

  32. This is where I start t have a problem with you article: “He was at this time connected to New Covenant Fellowship as a youth pastor and used them to jump start his second attempt which was South St Louis Fellowship…” the words: “…he used them…”
    right away you are coming in an accusing spirit, which is often based in woundedness that hasn’t been healing for one reason or another. I would love to sit down with you and mike bickle and hear both sides of your experience to balance out what you are portraying here. The bible tells us that the person that only listens to one side of the story, is a fool. I encourage everyone who reads this article and other like it about our brothers and sisters in the kingdom, not matter where they are or what paradigm they are moving in, to always seek both sides of the story. That is wisdom, that is maturity. Now it may be that the writer of the article won’t publish my comment. If he doesn’t, that in itself will expose the point I’m making here.

  33. The scripture that says “the person who only listens to one side of a story is a fool..” Where is that? My curiosity is up.

    I’m sure you missed it but I personally am not the one who lived with Mike Bickle. That person (who wrote that article), however, checks in here from time to time so perhaps you’ll get a response. Maybe?

    I have tried numerous times to get some type of response from Mike Bickle. Alas, he is a busy man – as I’ve never even received any type of reply at all. Just wanted to let you know I’m not throwing stones behind the guy’s back.

    As far as which “paradigm” THIS blog author is moving in, may I say that this author is moving in sync with whatever can be shown or proven in God’s word (following Acts 17:11). True maturity in God’s word is being willing to dissect it — to analyze and interpret it minutely. IF what you’re hearing (or reading) rubs you the wrong way, prove the speaker/teacher wrong! SHOW them in the Bible where they’re wrong.

    You obviously got your feathers ruffled on this story, OK so site your scriptures to refute. Guaranteed, I am listening.

  34. No feathers ruffled here, dear. Just writing truth about keeping balanced. Am not inclined to get into scripture stone throwing either.

  35. Not trying to get into scripture about stone throwing. I would like to know which scripture you’re referring to regarding listening to both sides of an argument or you’re a fool. Seriously. That’s a good one and I would like to know.

    One other question, since you go to IHOP, please share with me the scriptural base used for contemplative prayer. If it lines up, I’ll except it.

  36. It is ABSOLUTELY not Biblical to allow this accusation to be posted anonymously. Therefore, we all know that your commitment to scripture is selective. You are simply religious. If you want to do the right thing, post the name of this person. Otherwise, take this down. This is not about whether these accusations are true or not. It is about whether YOU are going to operate in a Biblical manner. Your response to this will allow everyone who sees your blog to draw appropriate conclusions about your ministry, both now and moving forward. Do the right thing.

  37. David, since I am not the original author of this post, I do not have the authority to name names. Please also list the scripture you’re using in making that statement.

    I am not “simply religious” nor am I selective in my use of scripture. I
    perceive, however, you are an IHOP intern or supporter of one. I recommend you take one of Mike Bickle’s lessons — like on Contemplative Prayer for example, and break it down as being either 1. Scriptural or 2. Not — Hopefully The Lord will open your eyes to IHOP.

  38. I know you asked me for scriptures on contemplative prayer, but after reading through the post again, other people’s comments/concerns and your responses, I see that you are totally steeped in a religious stranglehold in your mind. I’m sorry for you for that. Here is a teaching I will share with you that gives many scriptural references and a great prophetic and revelatory teaching – it would serve your spirit well top dial down your fleshly accusations and carnal assumptions and listen to God’s spirit. You have seriously accountability for the baseless accusations you are posting here – I do pray for your soul. David (above in this thread) makes a strong truthful statement against your behavior here on this blog: -” It is ABSOLUTELY not Biblical to allow this accusation to be posted anonymously. Therefore, we all know that your commitment to scripture is selective. You are simply religious. If you want to do the right thing, post the name of this person. Otherwise, take this down. This is not about whether these accusations are true or not. It is about whether YOU are going to operate in a Biblical manner. Your response to this will allow everyone who sees your blog to draw appropriate conclusions about your ministry, both now and moving forward. Do the right thing.” I, too, encourage you – do the right thing. http://mikebickle.org/resources/resource/1529?return_url=http%3A%2F%2Fmikebickle.org%2Fresources%2Fseries%2Fprayers-to-strengthen-your-inner-man

  39. Kara, thank you for that which you sent. I will review it.

    Isn’t it you, however, that is “steeped in a religious stranglehold”?

    ~ You’ve basically dared me not to post your comment. I did.

    ~ I’ve asked you for scriptural backup as to where that scripture is about,”hearing only one side of an argument is a fool”. NO response from you. (This was also not responded to despite another reader noting not being able to find it..)

    ~I’ve asked you for scriptural backup on contemplative prayer. Instead of just telling me WHERE the scripture is to back it up, which would close my mouth fast AS WELL AS gain an apology from me (!) you’re telling me I need to “dial down my fleshly accusations and carnal assumptions”.

    After reading YOUR response(s), I ask you WHO is it that is steeped in “a religious stranglehold”? At least I’m conversing WITH you instead of AT you. You, however, are giving me only your side on this. Kara, let me hear your scriptural backup and I will not only apologize, BUT I will CLOSE THIS THREAD DOWN ALTOGETHER.

    Ball’s in your court, Kara.

  40. Kara Lamb from IHOP (?) never posted her scriptures to back up what she was saying up above. Do you think IHOP leadership told her not to write on this blog anymore? I’ve heard other people from IHOP saying that some of their teachers were really trying to steer them away from talking to anyone who was like pro-IHOP. One of them ended up leaving. He’ll never return he says.

  41. Am reposting this from Truthspeaker’s blog. I think it addresses some of the comments (above) made in defense of IHOP.

    The White Horse Prophecy and The Other Bickle Brother
    by truthspeaker
    Here is a guest post about Mike Bickle’s brother Pat, and the revised prophecies pertainging to his healing that were foundational to the KCF and IHOP. Thanks Julie for writing this!

    Years ago I was involved in Kansas City Fellowship (KCF)- the church formed by Mike Bickle which eventually evolved into what is now called IHOP-KC. My family considered KCF our church home for the years 1982 through the end of 1989. We were present during these formative years and heard first hand many of the foundational prophecies behind the IHOP movement

    Also during this time we had the privilege of getting to know the other, lesser known, Bickle brother, Pat. Pat’s story is important and deserves to be heard. What happened to Pat: his accident, his promised healing, and his death have undergone some serious historical revisions over the years by IHOP leadership.

    I wish to set the record straight. I do not do this out of animosity towards those persons responsible for this revision. However, they need to be held accountable. Moreover, I would like to challenge the followers of this movement to question the legitimacy of the prophecies on which it is based.

    The foundational prophecies of IHOP are frequently cited by those who say it is a work of God. Perhaps the most significant foundational prophecy in the 80’s was the “white Horse” prophecy, and make no mistake about it – it was about Pat Bickle. But you won’t hear about that today.

    The telling of that prophecy has morphed into something else with certain details changing and others being omitted. This is just flat out dishonest. There is no other way to describe it.

    Pat Bickle was injured in a football accident in the early 70’s which left him paralyzed from the neck down. I did not live in Kansas City during the years that the people of Kansas City came together to contribute financially via various fund raisers for Pat’s needs. Many, many people knew the name ‘Pat Bickle’ and grieved his tragedy.

    In researching Pat’s accident, I came across this well written article. It’s worth reading and provides necessary background to what I have to say. Please take the time to read it. ( see link at end )

    As I stated, many foundational prophecies that legitimized God’s calling on IHOP today were delivered in the ’80’s. It’s difficult to convey the emotional excitement back then of having THE prophets in our midst; the newness of hearing (and the difficulty in judging) so many promises given to our church and the flattery of being chosen, not for salvation, but to collaborate with God on bringing about an end-time revival that would reach the four corners of the earth.

    This was ground breaking stuff, folks. Up until this point, I had personally felt that I’d only been playing church. We were getting ready to do it right. It seemed like the saints who’d come before us would have longed to be in our shoes. That was the energy present at this time.

    The promises and the prophecies were coming so rapidly, it was difficult to sort through them, let alone judge them. There was a sense of needing to trust the leaders put in place by God to bring it all together. These were supernatural promises and as such they certainly needed anointed people who understood the propehtic gift to sift through it.

    The one prophecy – given over and over again – became the one prophecy I clearly understood. And it was one that we all had an eager desire to see come to pass. It was the very incredible prophecy that Pat Bickle would be healed, and that his healing, and the notoriety he already had in Kansas City, would be the event that would usher in this great revival.

    At the outset, I wish to acknowledge that no one person at Kansas City Fellowship had a greater desire to see this happen than Mike Bickle and his family, save Pat himself. I knew Pat and considered him a good friend during a season of time at KCF. Because of this friendship, during our times visiting with Pat, we would mentally document the different prophecies, or angelic visitations, dreams and visions that directly pertained to Pat being healed. We would ask: “Which Prophet had said what?” Every time there was a new prophet in our midst, the first question in our group was, “did they say anything about Pat?”

    For many people, Pat getting healed was synonymous with the Holy Spirit falling at Pentecost, it was that significant. Were other persons following these prophecies as closely? Well, they would have had to have been asleep to miss them- it was that important to the revival.

    Probably the main prophecy delivered about Pat was one repeated many times. It was called “the White Horse prophecy.” I bring this particular prophecy up because it has undergone some changes through the years. Those changes have been well documented at BeyondGrace in the following article written by Bill Fawcett. Bill painstakingly scoured texts and teachings still available to verify his findings. Shenanigans are afoot, folks. (see link at end)

    In the original prophecy, there is a white horse standing in a stream of shallow water. The rider on the horse is Pat, who is lying on a board. This is significant because Pat would attend meetings lying on a bed rather than sitting in a wheel chair. At his side, guiding the horse, is Mike Bickle. Rabid dogs standing at the banks are trying to prevent this movement from succeeding. Mike’s job is to keep the horse in the center of the stream, essentially turning a deaf ear to the rabid dogs.

    It is clear from the prophecy that the dogs are misguided believers speaking against this movement. At some point in the original telling of prophecy, Pat’s board is tipped in such a way that he lands in the stream and is miraculously healed.

    The article from BeyondGrace goes into the details of this prophecy changing through the years. Having undergone many changes, this prophecy is now used to legitimize this movement as being God ordained, with much opposition (rabid dogs); the rider on the horse is something else entirely, and sadly Pat Bickle has been completely removed from the story. Let me say that again – Pat is no longer a part of this pivotal vision/dream/prophecy. Huh? How did this happen – is God’s revelation that pliable?

    People who attend IHOP today may not realize this, but quite a bit of cherry-picking has gone on through the years in determining which prophecies were legitimate and needing to be held on to today. Those which didn’t come to pass have been dismissed and forgotten. Hundreds more prophecies delivered back in the ’80’s fall into the latter category. How did the leadership choose? Back then, in such a fluid environment, most were received without question as being a promise of God.

    How did they know which category to then place them in? Well, we were all instructed that, if they didn’t come to pass, it wasn’t the Lord who gave it. As a matter of fact, on a few select occasions, prophet’s got their marching orders if a clear ‘thus saith the Lord’ didn’t come to pass. Augustine Alcola comes to mind, but I digress.

    Let me say this again: many, many, many prophecies delivered by the same men who today are considered bonafide propehts of God, simply did not come to pass.

    Not only did so many of these prophecies NOT come to pass, many people now see those early promises given (in their current revisons), which are now a part of IHOP’s prophetic history, as binding upon them and this movement as the very scriptures themselves.

    So binding are they that they are willing to give heart and soul to this movement. Are people simply unaware of the flimsy foundation they are standing upon by following these extra-biblical prophecies and promises? I cannot answer this question. However, this White Horse Prophecy, which was ALWAYS about Pat Bickle being healed, now serves a new and useful purpose in that IHOP attendees are encouraged to dismiss me and other whistle blowers, indeed this very article I write, as a ‘mad dog.’ How convenient.

    Who made these decisions? Did Mike Bickle alone change this history in order to silence those of us who have legitimate concerns? Silence us to the questioning flock so they will remain in the dark?

    This is my memory and I stand by it. It’s too bad that most of the original teachings where these numerous prophecies were given (except the scarce documentation of the White Horse Prophecy) are no longer available to either prove or disprove my memory. However, there are still a few old timers hanging on at IHOP. They will be able to attest to the fact that Pat’s healing was going to usher this whole thing in.

    My charge to the leadership at IHOP: either come clean regarding this prophecy, or stop using it to shut up dissenting opinion. And shame on you for removing Pat from the telling of this prophecy.


    Link to story about Pat Bickle:


    Beyond Grace White Horse Prophecy:http://beyondgrace.blogspot.com/2011/08/mike-bickle-white-horse-prophecy.html?m=1

  42. Thank you, David. I think you’re a bit pro-IHOP despite what you said.. I think you’d better ask God to show you His will.

  43. David,

    I posted your comment after removing the cutting comments directed at an individual at the end of it. Everything else was left intact.

    Please refrain from attacking comments against people unless you have scripture with which to back them up,

  44. Stay strong annunk. People liked to give me a lot of flack for posting what I did about the Elijah List, but when there is deception going on in the Body of Christ, you are not to stay silent. It’s through the misuse of the words “grace” and “love” and completely misinterpreting the “judge not” verses that a lot of these people base their case. If you haven’t read my story, feel free to here: http://www.honorofkings.org/elijahlist/

    Blessings and peace,

  45. Thanks, Kevin. I removed the one person’s comments after receiving a truly hateful post (which I did not approve). I decided it would be better for everyone’s peace to not have to wade thru them.

    IHOP people say we’re being ugly by saying anything adverse about Mike Bickle and/or IHOP. We’re not. We’re just trying to warn people about the deception. Then we get people like the last guy… ‘Nuff said.

    Thanks again.

  46. Jesus warns about those coming from WITHIN the church that would actually tear it apart. This would be done by what they teach which would be VERY false. Since they are in the Church, they would teach from the bible but DISTORT its message. Paul states in 2 Cor.11:13-15 they are false apostles and messengers LOOKING like those who teach righteousness. They may LOOK good on the outside but the life of Christ is not there on the inside and their message will ALWAYS BE WITH scripture, but distort its meaning. Their focus will be THEIR church or organization instead of Christ.

    (Margo, this is in reply to your comment which I’m not posting per your request.)

  47. having recently left a religious cult atmosphere I was compelled to read the article for 2 reasons, to gain insight into elements consistent with false truth vs truth. I am being more careful in discernment of church atmospheres as I am attending different churches til the spirit leads me to choose one. it has been an educational experience to say the least. my eyes are becoming more wide open to subtle yet dangerous undercurrents in many of the churches I have visited. suffice it to say that three years ago I had my life altering experience. was sent to a “program” which became a “Holy Spirit stick-up” for discipleship. three years later I count myself blessed to have gotten out. There are glaring parallell consistencies in your experience and mine. I have attended a sister ministry to IHOP and am more awakened to some similiar nagging similarites to having a leader and/or church guide people vs a personal relationship that is established in ” the secret place” . i thank you for your truth from personal experience for me to gain knowledge from. be blessed all ways always.

  48. I’m glad you’re out.

    Your practice of attending many, many churches before deciding on which one to stick with is very prudent (as well as Spirit led). In doing that, you’re actually following Acts 17:11 [These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. (Acts 17:11 NKJV)]
    i.e. That’s something I could see a Berean doing.

    Hang tight and, for the sake of others, be ready to share your experience — possibly to help them escape the same type of thing that you did. I pray daily that The Lord would permanently close the doors on IHOP.

  49. I see you deleted my posts and yet leave the replies by the IHOP obsessed Annuk, who is a Jezebel

    Now whose acting like a cult?

    You are.

    You only want comments that support you.

    I was critical of IHOP but I swat the Jezebel Annuk

    You deleted. Shame on you.

    More cry babies on IHOP. Pack up and leave all you whinin cryin brats.

    With all the 100 fold phonies on TV and false prophets you want to settle some score with Mike Bickle? There are bigger fish to fry

    There are issues at IHOP. No doubt.

    You claim IHOP is cult? You are a cult.

    You’ll answer Mr. know it all.

    I’d lay huge odds you have lost a significant part of your anointing, if any at all

    I dare you to post this reply and leave it up.

  50. Ahhh?

    I just noted the Jezebel Annunk is the author of this website!!

    Congratulation tool of hell.

    You will pay for this Annunk. You are a cult all on your own

    I want nothing to do with you

    You have a very bad spirit

    Go ahead you coward. Delete my posts.

    I will not be back. You are obsessed.

    IHOP has issues but you are a full blown witch. A rebellious manipulative tool of the devil.

    You will have accomplished nothing and there will be no reward for your work.

    All vanity

  51. I’m a cult??!? I have a “bad spirit”??!!? Sorry, kiddo, but that’s the pot calling the kettle ‘black’.

    Though I’m not anyways near being what he was, please keep in mind that apostle Paul also had a lot of “religious” folk upset with him. Re-read Galations 1:6-9. It’s called BEING a Berean… Will do that till the day I die. You should try it sometime…

    Blessings, !!!

  52. Hi my name is Megan and I have been going to my church for 7 years now and 2 years ago 3individuals were hired to be at our church that worked for ihop for 7-10years plus. And I have my concerns but the pastor of the church’s wife loves ihop, loves mike buckle, and loves Lou engle. I brought it to there attention how my husband and I feel about it, which are not good feelings and the pastors wife really talked highly of them and assured me they were good men. I would really like your input or advice as to what to do or if I should leave my church? If possible I would really like to talk with you via phone because I am having a very difficult time with this. Thank you and Godbless.

  53. Megan, you’re welcome to write me at annunk@aol.com

    I have some personal thoughts on what to tell you, but I think first and foremost you should really pray about what God would have you do.

    I will tell you to first check this out. “These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Acts 17:11 NKJV

    This discusses the Bereans and how they searched the scripture because they wanted to KNOW the truth of what they were hearing, — Whether it lined up with God’s word. You have what they had. YOU are wanting to know the truth. Sadly, your pastor’s wife is going by her feelings and not by God’s word — much like Mike Bickle — despite the fact that I’m sure he believes he’s walking right in line with it..

    Drop me a line if you’d like.

  54. I first encountered IHOP-KC back in 2004. It was the most uplifting and God ordained moment I ever encountered. I did receive a couple personal prophesies. Over the next eight years, both did happen. Glory to God!

    Through my life (I am close to retirement age), the Lord placed different people and/or places (religious experiences) at different stages for my growth. All having a unique all reason and purpose. I would call those experiences stepping-stones. Those stones were necessary for me to experience so that I could eventually obtain the purpose and destiny God planned for my life.

    Reading this blog, I see where some have looked at IHOP as an answer to your Christian walk. Never do that. God has many more stages for you (and me) to get through in order we can become the person He wants you and I to be.

    IHOP is a powerful stepping-stone. Never think a stepping-stone is an arrival point. God does not work this way. You and I need various experiences. Never curse a stepping-stone. Thank the Lord for what He gives you and stay focused on where He is taking you.

    I remember Bill Johnson once said, “Eat the meat and spit out the bones”. Stay encouraged with a heart of thankfulness and continue your personal path to greatness.

  55. John,

    Actually, I think that you are the one using IHOP to be the answer to your Christian walk! You begin your comment by saying (basically) that two prophecies came true that were given to you there!

    John, what do you, John, believe about contemplative prayer?

    Why does Mike Bickle still esteem Bob Jones and Paul Cain so highly? Do you even know about them?

    Why do you believe so many of the young people cut off ties with CHRISTIAN family and friends after becoming interns there? Doesn’t that concern you even a little?

    I’m probably your age if not a little older. I’d like you to at least answer my first question above.

    Thank you.

  56. Hi Annuck – i am fellow christian i would like to converse with u what i have to talk about is very difficult as it involves 2 friends in worship there, once many years leaders @IHOP.

    u do speak the truth and i am thankful to God that u were able to find his spirit, power & strength to share it here — so others can pray and rightly so, beware as God would want his children to be out of going the wrong direction that some of His beloved have gone….lest that be us.

    The wrong thing to do would not to speak the truth in love and not pray for them and not be there for them when they wake up.

  57. Been a while since anyone wrote. My name is also Mike Bickel (but please notice the difference in the spelling of my last name. I have been stopped at airports back when he was being checked and I said my name. Luckily my name is a bit different. I have had so many strange seemingly coincidental encounters about Mike Bickle – I live in St. Louis – met a person the other day who knew Mike Bickle as a youth pastor in Maryland Heights – I have felt like I’d like to find out whether he is dangerous, whether he is God driven, or whether he’s just a sad tragic figure of misguided brain-cell firing. Funny thing is, my full name is ROBERT MICHAEL BICKEL and if you take each of those names and convert them into numbers (ie. R=18, O=15, etc.) and then you add each name up AND THEN you add those numbers together you will get 666. Try it… you’ll see. So perhaps I am the Beast and Mike Bickle is the FALSE PROPHET, huh? Now if your name was like mine, you might worry a bit about this, but probably not if you were mentally stable, right? In the dead sea scrolls there is a section about identifying the “Chosen One” – reference: 4Q534 …of his hand: two…a birthmark. And the hair will be red. And there will be lentils on…and small birthmarks on his thigh.

    Now if you were me, with a name of Robert Michael Bickel that would translate into 666 you might get a bit confused if you had red hair AND had a birthmark on your right thigh, right? Well… that’s the God’s truth. When I was a youngster, I told my mother that the cluster of freckles were “my congregation”. Again… as God is my witness this is true.

    So… why am I telling a bunch of strangers all this? Because I also teach the Bible, I also am very religious, and I also do not, in any way think that I am God’s gift to anyone, except to confess my own failings, my own flawed mind and my own obsession about such silliness as a Name, some freckles and a number combination. But if I can worry about it… think it’s a bit strange, then I’m sure that Mike Bickle (the KC guy) can get a bit mis-guided too, right? So… while I am researching Mike Bickle, I am also believing that everything that has been written above is helpful in understanding how God’s purpose for us works. Misguided Saul became Paul. Misguided murderer Moses was the first to encounter Jahweh. Tricky, sly Jacob (aka Israel) sought God’s blessing so much, he cheated, lied, and then was afraid of Esau much later when he heard about his troops coming. Misguided “dreamer-boy” Joseph torqued off his brothers and even his father and mother with crazy dreams, but ended up saving the family. Gold digger Joseph Smith with his alleged tablets from Moroni was a fake… and yet the Mormons have done a lot of good in this world. I think we’re all works in progress and “all things work together for good for those who love God”. In sum… let’s all love God and see how he works this mystery out.

  58. You have some very “nice” thoughts about different beliefs, Mike, but you do have one thing in common with IHOP’s Mike Bickle– YOU also have taken a scripture and used it incorrectly in that you failed to use the entire scripture.

    And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are CALLED according to His purpose.
    Rom. 8:28

    Mormons aren’t called. Jury’s still out on Bickle from IHOP since he keeps taking portions of scripture and twisting them… I just keep praying God will open his eyes.

    You said let’s just all keep loving God and see how He works this mystery out….

    Mike, I hope you’ll come to know the real Jesus eventually. Right now, you’re leaning more toward a world/New Age faith in believing that God’s blessing is just all over anything “good” and THAT belief is very incorrect as well as dangerous.

  59. Thank you for this article, I think it was very brave of you to expose Mike Bickle and IHOP, it’s so hard to put your finger on the false teachings, because these guys are very good at mixing truth. Thank you because you really helped me understand where the problem lies with IHOP, I really felt like something was wrong but I just couldn’t put my finger on it. The Lord tells us to test the spirits, it’s not judgement, it’s testing the spirit. Again, thank you for your boldness and honesty. In Christ’s Love, Jacki

  60. Thank you, Jackie. There’s still a lot of (mainly young) people still swallowing everything that comes out of the IHOP pulpit. I pray God will place within them a strong desire to BE like the Bereans in Acts 17:11 — to see if what they’re hearing is true or not.

  61. But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

  62. I wonder if the same was said about Paul when he’d expose those who were spreading false teachings & deceiving the believers in Christ of that day? I’m sure he had a few ‘holy stones’ thrown at him as well.

    You must be from IHOP – so I understand your defensive stance as well as your inability to see the error. May God open your eyes to His truth and give you the ability to recognize the lies which are, by-the-way, mixed in with some truth.

  63. So to desire to do great aspirations for the Lord in love like the great men of faith is cult? Mike knows His word and I am darn sure he understands that when he gets to the throne all his “good works” done outside of love will be burned up. I think he sees something the angels see that make them cry “holy” day and night they never stop. I don’t think he needs to be famous but he is certainly making Christ famous and what is a love affair out of duty without emotion? God created sex didn’t he? I pray you are liberated to enjoy the ecstasy of the Lord along with the disciplines. It is for FREEDOM Christ set us free.

  64. Wendy, you’re stuck on “Mike Bickle’s teachings” rather than simple scripture. Let loose of the bridal paradigm, will ya? It’s not easy to “unlearn” certain teachings, but it can be done. I know. I’ve been there myself.

    Tell me – Why is Mike still pals with Bon Jones? Are you familiar with Bob, Wendy? He was an IHOP “star” years ago. How about Paul Cain? Why is he still buddies with him – also another IHOP “star”. But both booted out for sexual causes.

    Believe it or not, Wendy, you’re in the process of ‘drinking the Kool-aid’ right now. Don’t blow this off and say I don’t know what I’m talking about. Instead, pray about it. Ask The Lord if there’s any truth to what I’m telling you. Ask Him to open your eyes to whats really going on there. OTHERS have left IHOP once their eyes were opened. I pray God will show you the way out of there.

    Blessings, Wendy. May they overtake you.

  65. Annunk and others,

    It is difficult to judge things well in this day and age with the advent of the internet and considering that we as humans always have some sort of bias.

    One thing that does sadden me while reading is what seems to be a consistent attitude of “I am right, you are wrong, and if you would simply consult the Holy Spirit, He would show you that you are wrong and I am right.” However, from reading I do believe that the opponents of what is being said here are more guilty of that kind of attitude then the author.

    I certainly do not condone the idea of “just love Jesus and others and everything will work out.” If that were true, the Scriptures would say plainly say that we can love at the expense of truth. I definitely agree that the absolute anchor and test by which we can be secure and assured of truth is the Holy Scriptures of God. Everything else is subject to error (including visions, dreams, impressions, etc.)

    Unfortunately, most of us have been brought up in a world that constantly attacks the Word of God, calling it irrelevant, full of errors, etc. and sets itself up as judge over the word of God and its Author.

    I have been in an interesting battle myself over the last few years, including extreme mental torture, and much of it stemming from the idea that MEN often disagree on matters of faith and practice and assert their viewpoints as being absolutely true. I have asked myself the question so many times, “If Spirit-filled men disagree, who is right???” I haven’t been willing to say that if a man preaches something other than what makes sense to me, that they must be wrong. However, from this I can say that one conviction has grown stronger and stronger, and that is that when a MAN speaks something other than what the Word of GOD plainly teaches, it is at best an opinion, and at worst, dead wrong. And that is true for ANY man, including men such as John Wesley, Leonard Ravenhill, Mike Bickle and every other.

    Whether or not what has been written in any of these postings are true, only the Word can tell. But my admonishment is to all, when you speak and assert what makes sense to you, make sure it also is validated by the eternal Word of God which remains, otherwise it is worthless.

  66. Nate,

    You said, “when you speak and assert what makes sense to you, make sure it also is validated by the eternal Word of God which remains, otherwise it is worthless”.

    Excellent point. That’s exactly with the Bereans did. That is also the reason for this site as well as others like it.

    The whole reason for pointing out false teachings is to warn others who, unlike a few, simply believe everything a “really great teacher” says — instead of making sure, thru scripture, that WHAT the individual said is actually correct according to God’s Word.

  67. Somewhere between Mike’s faults, shortcomings and blindspots and those who are posting these criticisms and their faults, shortcomings and blindspots is the truth. While it is true that any ministry with a higher profile will receive a lot of undeserved criticism, I’m not disputing the criticisms posted here because I am sure there is an element of truth in many of them.

    I was in a similar situation in the past with a different ministry; i.e. high profile ministry, lived with the leader’s family for a number of years (they actually know Mike), major problems in the ministry that contributed to shipwreck the faith of many etc. etc.

    I would admonish everyone on this post to pray for Mike out of a heart of compassion and not out of spite, bitterness or a judgmental heart. Aside from the main reason being that this is what Jesus commands us to do, it is an opportunity to do exatly what you believe Mike should be doing with people involved with IHOP. If you are resistant to what I am saying or more interested in posting your grievances, ask yourself this; what is motivating that and how are you any different than the very thing you criticize?

  68. You make some excellent points. While it’s true there are some Christ centered, God loving people at IHOP, it sadly remains a fact that IHOP has driven a wedge into many families, as parents are seldom on the same “level of spiritual superiority” (yes, I’m being facetious) as their IHOP-attending children.

    But what about those whose families are not shipwrecked? Aren’t those kids alright? They may be. That is a possibility – but only if they have not immersed themselves in what Mike regularly promotes i.e. contemplative prayer. That’s nothing but TM and once a person opens their mind up to familiar spirits, they’ve opened up a Pandora’s box.

  69. Ihop really is a great place. I have friends who have gone to Ihop broken and left as fiery missionaries! It doesn’t mean that they are perfect, but Ihop is doing a great thing with God. There is an Ihop locally out here called IHOP NW (for Ihop Northwest) that is simply a wonderful group of Christians. As James said, “we all stumble in many things” and it is true, and they have probably not always presented 100% accuracy, just like any of the greats in times past have probably not always given 100% accuracy. I don’t know any man but Jesus who has ever walked perfectly. But out of all the big ministries, Ihop is doing a huge, worldwide, powerful work with many souls coming into the kingdom. They have actually seen countless miracles, as I have heard from different sources connected with Ihop, both those who work there and those who simply attend sometimes. Even close friends, having attended Ihop’s ONETHING conference, have been transformed! Many have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is wonderful.

    The bereans were a people who had noble minds. Do not associate yourself with those people if you ‘bite and devour one another’ – this desperate stab at ihop, along with other similar voices (all who call themselves bereans or shepherds… hum…) is far from noble. I understand the thinking that you are rescuing people from deception, but in this case, I think you need to accept the full counsel of God’s Word in regard to how to speak and relate within the body. Let all that you do be done in love.

    Also, the original post was written in contradiction with itself. At one point, it says mike is ‘all in 100%’ with Jesus, and then it says he had ulterior motives? It goes back and forth… I think the more ‘positive’ spin it shows sometimes, is simply there to try and give the blog post more weight by appearing to have a broad view of mike… but it is just an unfortunate blog to have ‘out there’ on the web and I pray that no one is deceived by it, but judges righteously.

    I have not always agreed with any church or person, but I am learning to be less a legalistic, untempered christian and more and more childlike, and a better follower of Him, learning to walk in love. I hope that my post does not seem like a big angry one, but that anyone can see that I intend it for the building up of the body. I think, based on the attitudes of those who have posted things against mike, that some of you all need to take your bibles, go out to the beach or some place where you have peace, maybe fast that day, and just begin to give all your burdens to Him and meet with Him. He said ‘all who come to me I will in no way cast out’ and that is the truth! We must work with him. And may the edges of IHOP that are not perfect be made perfect and whole, and may we have unity until we stand at full stature as one man. We have to get together. If someone is in clear error, like mormons for example, they need to be dealt with very differently. But please let us walk in love heavenly Father.

    I think greater than and IHOP error, is the error of unprincipled men who attack IHOP. Any big move of God has people in the Body who stand up and attack it, and no wonder, those who stand up always associate themselves with one of two things, bereans or shepherds, the ones with the ‘correct view’ who are trying to ‘save the flock’. It is not new. Please, let us move on to walk in love!

    Finally, I know many people thought that IHOP was involved in a scandal where there was a cult working with ihop that was responsible for the death of a girl. IHOP has been completely cleared of that. The leadership at IHOP actually ratted out the cult! The cult leaders were trying to serve in different capacities, but Alan Hood a director of IHOP) figured out what was up and that all got dealt with, and the offending group, a cell group not spawned from IHOP or officially on staff with them, were all dealt with quickly, praise the Lord.

    To try to record all the missionaries who have gone out from IHOP, full of God and the Holy Spirit, and all of their work, would be useless- the list is too great! All the prayer rooms, touched nations, miracles, changed lives for God… all of the work done WITH the Lord instead of ‘for’ Him… is amazing. Thank You.

  70. Ronnie, greetings. Thank you for your comments. If you don’t focus on anything else, pay special attention to the last paragraph.

    Ronnie, go back to Acts 17:11. RE: The Bereans: They received the Word with gladness! But then they searched THE SCRIPTURES daily to find out IF what they’d heard was right or not.

    99% of the IHOP students are not doing that. The less than 1% who have – who have checked their Bibles to verify the teachings they’ve heard and have found discrepancies, AND who have then enquired about them with leadership, have been shown the door. That or else they have been told they need to be retrained and been directed to another facility not in KC.
    Some of these people have emailed and phoned me and a few others to ask our help in warning young believers about making the same mistake they did in going there.

    I recommend you read Ariel’s blog http://www.gospelmasquerade.wordpress.com. She is one of those who were able to get away from IHOP who has really sounded the alarm. She spent years at IHOP so she’s not just another kid who didn’t like it and left.

    On another note, there is one particular teaching at IHOP which I believe is the worst one that they have to offer. I believe it is the worst because it opens doors to powers and principalities to come on in and make their home within the person practicing it. I’m referring to Contemplative Prayer. Rather than repeat a lot of stuff you probably will just skim over anyway, please GOOGLE ‘contemplative prayer’ and ‘new age’. You’ll see what so many have found wrong with it.

    Finally, Tyler Deaton WAS on leadership with IHOP (though you didn’t personally know him).

    This is from Wikipedia: On October 30, 2012, former IHOPKC intern Bethany Deaton was found dead in an apparent suicide.[14] Days later, IHOPU student Micah Moore came forward to Grandview police and was subsequently charged with Bethany Deaton’s murder.[15] In statements to police, Moore claimed that he was part of a religious group with Bethany and Tyler Deaton.[16] Moore and other witnesses claimed that group leader and IHOPU graduate Tyler Deaton ordered his wife’s murder to prevent her from revealing sexual assaults within the group.[17] While IHOPKC materials and website listed Tyler Deaton as a division coordinator for IHOPKC friendship groups until five days after Bethany’s death, IHOPKC officials claim that Tyler Deaton’s group was not connected to IHOPKC.[18][19][20]

    Isn’t “division coordinator” a leadership position?

  71. Dear Hannah,

    Please give me some reference in scripture where I’m given instruction on Lectio divina. Lectio divina, or “divine reading”, I’m sure seem to be a safe and holy practice (as it’s required to practice contemplative prayer). As you’ve basically verbalized, studying scripture is important.

    Lectio divina, however, or let’s just call it “being still” or “entering the stillness”, goes way beyond hearing or study, but instead focuses on a change of consciousness. IHOP encourages this as you know.

    According to FORMER New Age medium, Brian Flynn, some aspects of Lectio divina are occult based:

    “By taking passages of Scripture, which have an intended meaning, and breaking them down into smaller, separate segments, for the purpose of chanting over and over and over, the true meaning of the scripture is lost. INSTEAD a form of occult mysticism is practiced – with the hope of having a mystical experience that God never intended when He gave the inspired words to His servants.”

    My posting a warning to believers isn’t “flesh”, Hannah. Practicing mysticism, however, most certainly is.

    I think one of the apostles failed to make a lot of friends due to his pointing out false teachers. Hmmm, what was his name? And I also think something was said about the great deception that would be in the world prior to His return…so great that if it were possible, it would deceive even the very elect. I’ll bet some of ‘those elect’ are at IHOP — might even be teachers there… I’m just saying..

  72. Annuk,

    There is ABSOLUTELY a scriptural basis for entering into a time of quiet “stillness” before God. There are many scriptures like Psalm 4:4, Psalm 46:10, Isaiah 30:15, Psalm 42:7, including Yeshua Himself who would go apart to a quiet place to pray, which are instructional to that end. For you to lob this kind accusation of “occult mysticism” at people for doing so is WRECKLESS and IRRESPONSIBLE. God isn’t a Sunday school teacher who decided to take a long vacation and left you alone to figure out all of your weekly lessons in your head. This is about a SUPERNATURAL relationship with God that is meant to empower us in every facet of our being. Yeshua Himself said that He would send the Holy Spirit to teach us, guide us, comfort us, lead us into all truth and to EMPOWER us as well. That in and of itself is a supernatural proposition and as Yeshua Himself said “God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth”. So let me ask you this; is speaking in tongues of God or of the devil? Is it still for us today? Or how about Paul being caught up into the third heaven? Was that demonic? Does that still happen today? Or what about gifts of healing, the word of wisdom or the word of knowledge as Paul mentioned in his first letter to the Corinthians? Is that still for us today?

  73. “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.” (Luke 11:24-26). I’m thinking that mind clearing occult practices may temporarily bring alleged relief, but ultimately all you are doing is denying a place where a foundation can be properly laid…. like building on sand.

  74. wow, I didn’t read all the posts but I will say this, following a mans vision will always get you in trouble, being guided by the holy spirit is key, why is it everyone follows man into the movements hoping to have or gain something, (personally) Ive learned a whole lot about my personal walk with God and my prayer life listening to the teachings of mike bickle on his website, will I become a follower of his movement? do I need to be sold out to learn how to develop my prayer life? NO, you eat the meat and spit out the bones and you trust in the God that directs you, God expects us to insert some common sense, you don’t allow your children to be raised by a movement or church you raise them yourself and you engage with God and direction you don’t follow a movement or a man into anything, I like Rob Bell, and I read all his books, does that mean I agree with him? no, but he gave me some great insight on how to deal with people, I like listening to an experienced man on prayer does that mean I drop all my life to follow a movement or a man’s dream? NO…wake up people take what you can out of what your learning and obey God, he isn’t trying to promote you hes trying to direct you to him …my prayer life is much better using the principles laid out on his website, so use them to develop your personal walk with God and that’s it, he isn’t calling you to abandon common sense and follow a man…hes calling you to himself, and trust him to guide you…that’s it, its not that difficult

    If mike B feels a calling to do this, let him do it, and let God do what he needs to do through him but people need to understand that they aren’t supposed to abandon all common sense to follow a man, they are directed by the holy spirit plain and simple, Mike B backs all he believes up in scripture and puts it on his website, study it out if you don’t agree eat the meat spit out the bones and BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SELVES, AND BELIEFS, it is not mans responsibility to guide you and show you stuff, it has to do with your relationship with God, and the holy spirit directing you, you Study to show yourself approved you doesn’t rely on you pastor to make up your belief system, you all have work to do personally….wake up people not everyone is called to be a part of this movement if you feel you are, make sure its God and not your personal insecurities about how you view God, ….direction and relationship is key…

    also, if I don’t agree with a movement but I do see God changing people I put that up before God, Mike B, may not do everything perfect but he has made it very clear he wants way more than the average believer wants and hey, let him go after it, people need to trust in the guidance of God not in man….

  75. There is ABSOLUTELY a time for being still before The Lord, Steve. There is absolutely NOT a time for performing a MANTRA, Nor is there ever a time to enter into a self-induced hypnosis Steve.

    Many have commented (including the renown Focus on the Family) about how this practice of Contemplation was first practiced by the early church fathers. Those early church fathers they’re referring to, however, are all catholic mystics — and never forget that the catholic religion, despite there being some true believers in it who do NOT adhere their faith upon the “blessed virgin Mary”, is a very PAGAN religion and always has been.

    The experiences you referred to in the NT absolutely happened – praise God! But they did NOT happen as a result of first controlling the breathing, repeating a word, phrase or thought over and over and having to rid ones mind of all ‘interrupting’ thoughts. What?! You think God is unable to do those things with someone unless that person is 1st in an altered state of consciousness? Surely you know He can do anything.

    That practice of contemplative prayer is the same as sinking sand, Steve. It clings to experience rather than the Truth of His Word.

  76. Truly spoken, Mike Bickle. The very reason mind emptying, which is required for performing the needed mantra for entering into contemplative prayer, is a VERY dangerous practice. The person performing it is literally “sweeping their house clean” and then throwing out the welcome mat for familiar spirits to enter in.

    Anytime experience is given a place above simple faith – childlike faith – that person opens their heart and mind to whatever shows up and then just assumes it’s of God.

  77. AngelJ, The reason I’m even taking the time to write, Angel, is to warn those who are considering becoming a part of IHOP – that there are some BAD BAD teachings there. (Paul got a few stones thrown at him for doing the same thing – WARNING the brethren. And no, I’m not comparing myself with Paul – other than to say that I follow the SAME Jesus he followed!)

    Spit out the bones???

    There are no bones in God’s Word. I realize mere men are more than capable of making mistakes in their messages and in what they TEACH but when they fail to see that error and then, worse yet, allow the listeners to keep living by those destructive words, THEN it’s definitely time to sound the alarm as in the case of the IHOP teachers – because I have great PITY for the student YOUTH at IHOP who are building their foundations upon sinking sand.

  78. I agree with your comments Annunk and tend to agree with Angel as well. She also represents many other seekers who have found out about Mike Bickle. But I DO agree with your passion Annunk and I have the exact same passion – not so much from wanting to judge anyone’s actions, but I, like you, cry out in pain when I see false shepherds and innocent sheep. Jesus expressed this too, as did Paul. This passion we have is because we hate to see innocent children being led astray. I have the exact same passion against many network marketing schemes (MLMs) which prey on vulnerable and people who are desperately seeking an answer. I wish I could destroy those people who do that. I don’t think that Mike Bickle himself is in any way engaged in personal gain or profit like those horrible people atop those pyramid schemes, but I DO suspect that such people have surround Mike Bickle with ‘ideas’ that come from such schemes and they claim they had a “vision”. Not sure that’s all true, but I am quite sure that Mike Bickle himself is vulnerable and needs to be pulled out to a place where he can get his feet on solid ground. Not sure how to do that. “It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.” (Luke 17:2).

  79. Annunk,

    I’m being very practical with you on purpose, (religion has no reality to it ) so i wont be giving you any indepth responses its really not difficult here, eating the meat and spitting out the bones is a figure of speech it means “mans” ways or views on the matter are the bones..simply because that’s what you have the Holy Spirit for? I never said scripture were bones, wow?

    My point again, in my early 20’s I followed a movement (mans vision ) into a downward spriral and learned a great deal about following man vs following God, people have this crazy idea that they have to abandon all common sense ( what God gave you) and follow people to be part of something, that isn’t how it has to be,, for the record Mike B has a great amount of teaching material on his site and I’ve learned a lot about God and prayer, there are a few HOP’s in my area that do great things for the community, I’ve visted them and its great will I abandon my family and sell out to follow a mans vision? No, what people need to do is find the relationship with God that directs them through life, my church life is very simple, my family life, very simple,my ministry is something separate and my relationship with God is the core of it all.

    It’s not that difficult to do when you decide who directs you, young people do things and you may be warning them but I’m doubting by this page they will listen. You need to improve your argument !!

    I will say this, there are a great many people that feel called to the movement and even if they feel called that doesn’t mean they are supposed to abandon common sense to be involved, ambition of man will always be a down fall sometimes works or ministry works define people out of their own insecurity of who they are, how they view God is really the issue, so they allow a man to do it for them, that is really the issue people get hurt mainly out of the fact that their motives were never right in the first place…i say before you do anything check the motive, usually is personal ambition and ignorance about your relationship to the Holy Spirit

    mike b is doing a movement, I don’t find anything wrong with that if people want to abandon all comon sense and reality to follow something I’m sure they will eventually learn that isn’t how it works, but if people want to sell out to the cause with the understanding of its meaning let them, live and learn but I know from personal experience you should never abandon your relationship and clear direction from God to run a mans vision

    People aren’t blind or misinformed people decide to do things out of free will as you did. It’s all about choices, its not about how you get to where you get its about why you choose to be where your at, sure it may be out of childhood wounds and unresolved issues but also, allow God to be God he will work things out with people individually. From what I’ve seen just from last year to this year his movement is just growing and growing. I feel God is on that in general but Man individually has to account for their own motives and ambition

  80. Annuk – I have listened to MANY of Mike’s teachings and have never heard him say / outline a specific method involving a Buddhist like approach of “controlling breathing” or that we should recite a word or phrase the same as a mantra over and over, or to induce self hypnosis. Post the youtube link of a message with the time stamp of where he says it in the message, and I will listen to it and address it accordingly. I have heard these types of accusations before and they are usually leveled at those who believe that the gifts of the Spirit and other supernatural experiences mentioned in scripture are still for us today. While I am not lumping you in with those folks, I’m always suspicious whenever I hear these accusations because more times than not the people making them don’t believe that ANYTHING supernatural is for us today as believers in Yeshua, and are far more deist in their theology than they realize. That position IMHO, is just as heretical as the accusations they make.

    As for the actual practice of being still before God, it does at times require the discipline of “having to rid one’s mind of all ‘interrupting’ thoughts” which is why Paul said in 1 Corinthians that we must “bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ” and why WE are to “PUT ON the mind of Christ” and “PUT OFF the old man”. Some of the best times I have had with God have been either late at night or early in the morning when I’m laying in bed in a deep, restful state rather than up and moving around. Sure God is not limited to when and where He can speak to me prophetically and yes He can “do anything”, but He’s not going to violate our will either so we will think WHATEVER WE CHOOSE to think, not necessarily what we would should be thinking according to His Word.

    While the “renewing of the mind” and the “mind of Christ” which Paul referred to are not at all the same as what eastern religions practice, they are at times an “altered state of consciousness”; i.e. from the standpoint that they are not the “natural mind which does not receive the things of the Spirit of God” but are rather supernatural, especially when a believer is praying in tongues and / or prayerfully meditating in God’s Word (Hebrews 4:12 says the Logos of God is alive and full of power). In point of fact, the Hebrew word “Hagah” that is many times translated “meditate” in the Tanakh, literally means to mutter, speak or even growl. So while I would agree that repeating the same scripture over and over a hundred times is what Yeshua defined as “vain repetition”, quoting or ‘muttering’ verses as a way to renew our minds is not at all the same as a Buddhist reciting a mantra (I have an uncle who is a Nicharen Buddhist so I know a thing or two about this deception). The recitation of mantras and chants are a counterfeit to praying in tongues and mediating in scripture just as TM and astral travel are direct counterfeits to supernatural experiences in the Spirit of God. But the counterfeit does not abrogate an authentic supernatural walk in the Holy Spirit.

  81. Go ahead and try filling a glass with cool refreshing spring water without first emptying out the flat soda that’s been sitting in there all day and see where that get’s you. ’emptying’ your mind can actually be a good thing if when you go to pray you are ’emptying’ out distractions plaguing your mind so that you can focus on that which God would show you in your spirit. We see a familiar pattern throughout the Psalms where the Psalmist begins by ‘pouring out’ his complaint before the Lord and then ends the Psalm being filled with hope. There is a principle in scripture of emptying and filling and sometimes when we are praying we must empty OR RELEASE certain things to be filled and to hear from God on a matter. Let me ask you this, do you believe that the ONLY way God can speak to us is by direct recitation of scripture or can He actually speak to us in our spirit?

  82. Annunk – the real question regarding the “spit out the bones” metaphor is to what degree is Mike in error both in his messages and in his administration of IHOP. As I mentioned, I have listened to MANY of his messages and don’t find much to disagree with so give me youtube links to things he has taught that are straight up error. As for his administration, that is something I cannot speak to because I’m not in IHOP which is why I posted my first comment (please read) on this blog.

  83. Mike, my truest concern is what I have seen IHOP do to the minds and hearts of the young people clinging to every word that comes out of the mouthS of the various teachers there.

    I’ve been a follower of Christ for well over 30 years and in looking back on my own personal walk, I’ve seen the near train wreck that Word of Faith doctrine very nearly caused me dueling that time. The only difference being, is that I was RAISED in a Christian home where God’s Word was red and shared on a daily basis! (No, i was enthusiastically paying attention all the time…) But I had a fairly good foundation laid upon which to build. THE SAME cannot be said about better than 1/2 of the IHOP interns.

    I have seen IHOP come VERY CLOSE to destroying my own family.

    I thank my loving Father for stepping in on my own child’s behalf and getting them OUT and AWAY from IHOP.

  84. Steve, It took some digging but yes, Mike Bickle did have some teachings on Contemplative prayer which, coincidently, managed to be removed about th time some concerns had been raised about it. Here you go: IHOP removed an article about Contemplative Prayer from their website. But look here… on mikebickle.org. This removes any doubt about his involvement with mysticism and his desire for unity with the Catholic church. Beware. Dangerous teachings follow from his Free Teaching Library ************* CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Transcript: 07/19/01 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness INTRODUCTION Ephesians 3 is one of the great prayers of the New Testament. The ultimate prayer of the New Testament may be the Lord’s Prayer in Matthew 6, or the “High Priestly” prayer in John 17. We don’t really have to pick between the two; we have them both. I really like the prayer in John 17. It’s Jesus’ final recorded prayer before He went to Gethsemane. Here in Ephesians 3 is one of the real pinnacle prayers of Paul the apostle. Ephesians 3 is one of the high points in the whole Word of God in terms of apostolic revelation under the unction of the Spirit revealing the highest things of God’s heart. There are few chapters in the whole Word of God that are equal to Ephesians 3 in terms of the grandeur of what is in God’s heart for the human heart. “FOR THIS REASON I BOW MY KNEES TO THE FATHER” We’re going to look a little at this prayer. My goal isn’t to break it down line by line; I don’t want to do that. There are plenty of good commentaries on Ephesians 3, but I want to draw attention to a couple of important points. Paul said, “For this reason I bow my knees to the Father” (Eph. 3:14). When Paul says, “For this reason,” he’s referring to verses 1:13, and also verses 15-21. It’s the entire flow of what’s going on in Ephesians 3. There’s a tremendous wealth of revelation before verse 14. That’s what’s on Paul’s mind, but he’s going to take all the revelation of verses 1-13 and pray that it would actually come to pass, and that’s what’s on his mind when he prays verses 14-19 and then makes that great statement in verse 20-21. WHEN WE LOSE THE PROPHETIC VISION, WE LOSE THE SPIRIT OF PRAYER I’ll paraphrase a little. “For this reason I labor in prayer; I bow my knees to the Father.” Let’s add the phrase, “I labor in prayer and fasting with something in view.” Paul has a very clear vision in view when he labors in prayer. The very thing that Paul had in view for the saints, for the believers in Ephesus, is what we have in view when we pray in intercession for the Church and when we pray in intercession even for our own lives and the lives of our friends and loved ones. There’s something in view; there’s a reason, there’s a vision, there’s something that’s awakening our heart, that’s wooing us into the fullness of God’s heart. I find that when people don’t have a reason, when they lose the reason—I’ll lay out the reason in a moment— when they lose the reason, they lose the fire for prayer. I have never seen a people sustain themselves in prayer that don’t have a greater and more sustained vision of what God wants for them. If you take away the prophetic preaching of what God has for the human heart, you’ll lose the spirit of prayer. I go places all the time and they say, “Teach us about prayer. We want to do some of the things that you men are trying to do.” The reason I say, “trying to do,” is because what we’re doing and what we’re trying to do are really two different things. We’re trying to do something high; what we’re actually doing is—well, the phrase I use in Kansas City is “little, rough, and ugly.” We’re endeavouring; we have a vision. For all of you who are leading prayer ministries, the call to prayer always begins with a clear, regular presentation of the vision of what God CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 2 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org has in His heart for people. When you lose the prophetic proclamation of the vision of what God has for the church or the vision that God has for the individual heart, you’ll lose the spirit of prayer. In the 1980s I travelled around, not very much, but a little, and they wanted to hear about it because I had given myself to intercession, and I said, “If you don’t have a vision of a victorious church and a soul in the fullness of God, you won’t have a prayer ministry in your church.” The vision of a victorious church is absolutely paramount for night-and-day prayer. RENEW YOUR VISION TO HAVE THE FULLNESS OF GOD I love it when Paul says, “For this reason.” Again, he’s going backwards referring to the first thirteen verses, but if there were a pinnacle statement it would be verse 19. We’ll get to that in a moment, but I’ll give you a little hint: Paul said that we would be filled up to the fullness of God. That’s the vision right there. That’s the ultimate reason. When we lose that vision, we lose the spirit of prayer, individually and corporately. You want to renew the spirit of prayer? Renew the vision to have the fullness of God. What I want to do in this first session is to go as far as I can and tell you some of my journey through Ephesians 3:19, to having a growing conviction that God wants my soul to enter into fullness. Ephesians 3:19 unquestionably has been one of the most important verses in my prayer journey in the last twenty years. “For this reason I labor in prayer” (Eph. 3:14, paraphrased). “For this reason I do what it takes to position myself before the throne to press in. For this reason I live a fasted life. I position my heart.” We will be a people of one thing because of a reason, because of a vision. He goes on in verse 15 and talks about the Father, “the God from whom every family in heaven and earth is named” (Eph. 3:15, paraphrased). There’s a lot there, but I’ll move past that. He goes on to describe some of his prayer theology. Why do we care about prayer theology? The name of this conference is “Passionate Pursuit.” It’s really kind of a cool name for living a life of contemplative prayer; living a life immersed in the Holy Spirit. What we’re really talking about is living a lifestyle of prayer, not just going to prayer meetings, but cultivating a spirit of prayer in our secret history in God. The Holy Spirit is renewing this thing called “contemplative prayer.” THE HOLY SPIRIT IS RESTORING CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER TO THE BODY OF CHRIST There’s no biblical definition for contemplative prayer. Contemplative prayer has been defined differently by different theologians in different generations of church history. I have my own definition; I’ll give you a handout tomorrow and lay it all out. My definition is a little different than others. Of course, I’ve never met two people who have the same definition of contemplative prayer. One thing is common: everyone talks about being abandoned to God in the pursuit of it. There’s a clear Holy Spirit emphasis on the subject of contemplative prayer. Maybe that’s a new term to you. Maybe you don’t know what I mean, or what others mean. I’ll be doing most of the morning sessions. I’ll be talking line by line about what contemplative prayer is from the perspective from history, and how the Word of God describes some of the dynamics of contemplative prayer. One thing is for sure: the Holy Spirit is restoring this precious jewel in the grace of God to the Body of Christ. We’re going to talk about what it is, why it’s important, and how to do it, because this is the God-ordained means to enter into Ephesians 3:19 in fullness. Fullness is what we’re after. We’re after fullness. We want everything God gives the human heart in this generation. We want everything that God will give the human heart in this hour of human history. He will give more now than He did a hundred years ago; He really will. He CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 3 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org will give the most in the generation of the Lord’s return. I believe we’re in that generation. Whether five years or fifty years, I don’t know, but I believe there are people on the earth today who will see the actual appearing of the Lord in the sky. I believe it’s closer to fifty years than to five years, but I don’t really know. I’m not a date-setter. As a matter of fact, I believe date-setting isn’t just dangerous; it’s worse than dangerous. It’s distracting. I believe we’re in that hour, and if it be true, if we’re in that final generation, whether we have several decades to go or not, there are things that God has uniquely reserved for the final hour of natural history called “the fullness of God.” A BILLION-YEAR JOURNEY INTO THE FULLNESS OF GOD The fullness of God in this age is nothing like the fullness of God in the age to come. As a matter of fact, the phrase in verse 19 is kind of a difficult phrase for human beings to peer into: “the fullness of God.” I can just imagine the angels saying, “Well, I would like to talk on that one for a few minutes.” Isaiah 6 describes the seraphim. Billions of years from now, the seraphim are still there, right next to the throne, still covering their eyes, still gazing, overwhelmed by new discoveries, new discoveries of the beauty of God. Maybe they’ve been there for billions of years. I have no way of knowing and I don’t care, but they’ve been there a long time. With one set of wings they cover their eyes, overwhelmed at the new discoveries, the new flashes of power of the transcendent beauty of God that overwhelms their being. For a billionth time they’ve gazed, and for a billionth time they’re overwhelmed by new discoveries. When I say fullness, I look around at the great cloud of witnesses and I admit I don’t have a clue what I’m talking about. Let’s settle that, OK? “I’m a little man; you men know a whole lot more than I know, but what a stunning phrase that God the Holy Spirit put in the Bible.” There’s the relative definition, and of course there’s the absolute one, the absolute definition of the fullness of God; a billion years into eternity we will still be discovering the inexhaustible ocean of God’s being. It’s inexhaustible. I don’t know what to say about the absolute definition of fullness. I don’t think it’s my mandate or my invitation in God even to peer into that in any significant kind of way, but on this side of the resurrection, there’s a relative definition for fullness, for what God will give the human heart in this season of history. The church in the Western world has so quickly abandoned our inheritance of the fullness of God, even in the relative sense of the term. I don’t want to give up our inheritance for this hour of history. I want to be a man in the midst of a people related to a whole company of people all over the earth, an international family of affection that has Ephesians 3:19 written on its heart by the Holy Spirit. We’re going after this thing with all the abandonment that the grace of God will give us. Business as usual is not OK. I’m not taking my cues from other leaders in the Body of Christ who pat me on the head and say, “Settle down, you’ll be OK.” I don’t want to be OK. I want an unrelenting pursuit after fullness, which is another way of saying hungering—hungering for God. YOUR DESIRE FOR GOD IS GOD’S GIFT TO YOU It’s the greatest gift that God can give you. Well, I don’t know if I want to say, “the greatest.” There are a lot of things you can put in that category. One of the great things that God can give the human soul, the human heart, is desire for Him. Your desire for Him is His gift to you. It really is. It takes God to love God. It takes God the Holy Spirit. It takes supernatural activity to be abandoned to go after God in fullness. CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 4 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org THE PARADOX OF HUNGER IN THE LOVE OF GOD The problem with hunger is that hunger has tremendous pain and tremendous delight on the other end of it. There are several very powerful paradoxes in the heart of the hungry for God. The very anguish we feel of darkness and barrenness is really an expression of hunger and love. It’s the dark side of love. I don’t mean dark in an evil sense. John of the Cross talked about the dark side of love. He spoke of dryness; he spoke of experiencing the pain of barrenness that can’t bear accepting the status quo, but can’t have that for which we yearn so greatly. In itself it’s the very work of love in the human spirit. God has many reasons for what John of the Cross called “the wounds of love.” He draws us closer. We get closer to the fire of His being. The closer we get, the more awakened we are in love, and yet the paradox is this: the closer we get, the more aware we become that we’re outside of the fullness of the experience of love. We feel the pain of being overwhelmed, and in the same twenty-four-hour period we feel the pain of feeling like we’re groping, touching nothing. I’ve known them both in the same twenty-four-hour period. It’s like eating a thirty-ounce steak after a twenty-day fast. In my tiny capacity, I know the pain of touching a little of God and being so full and stuffed. “Oh, I can’t take any more. Stay Your hand lest You kill me.” I haven’t had many of those, but I have had a few experiences where God’s revelation touched me. It was such a small thing, but my capacity was so much smaller that it was like a big steak after a long fast. It was painful; I said, “Don’t give me anything more for a little while.” Then, in the same period of time, even in the same twenty-four-hour period, I felt like I was groping with nothing. It’s a strange thing, this thing called the grace of God in the human soul. THE GLORY AND THE GORE OF THE FULLNESS OF GOD We’ll talk a little about the wounds of love. We’ll talk about John of the Cross, one of the contemplatives from the sixteenth century in Spain, one of the great men of God, a man who touched some of the secret places in God’s heart in union with God. God has raised him up as a statement—not infallible, not perfect, but his abandonment to God is a rebuke to the modern church, because even that long ago God was giving these things to the human heart. I don’t want to get ahead of myself, but the fullness of God is gory and glorious. I call it “the glory and the gory”—the overwhelming delight and the horrible anguish of love happening in the same human heart. We’re pursuing this together, not just in one place; I’m talking about the fellowship of the burning heart all over the nations, from all different traditions in the Body of Christ. Millions of people are going after this thing. There’s a certain fellowship around the burning heart of God that’s so precious and so dear. We don’t have to apologize for the intensity of our desire for God. Probably everyone in this room lives in a context where we have to apologize to other people for our intensity. That’s the way it works; it’s not a rebuke to anyone, that’s just the way it works. We have to hide it. It’s almost like we have to pretend it isn’t really there, because even believers in Jesus are intimidated, overwhelmed, and made uncomfortable by spiritual intensity. I know God is raising up places all over the world where we can gather, little oases where we come together for a few days; they’re going to be everywhere. They’re everywhere now. We come together and we drink from this well a little. For just a few moments, we don’t have to have any facades. We’re weak, we’re broken, we have intensity, we have a vision, we’re not entering into it, we’re failing, but we’re going, and we don’t have to apologize for our failures, nor do we have to apologize for our vision and our intensity. We’re going for it. It’s very important. When you preach on it and proclaim it, there will be those who make sure they watch and catch CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 5 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org you when you fail. There’s a certain sense of, “Well, I won’t really speak my real heart.” Then there’s the other group of people who feel so rejected and intimidated, you don’t want to say it to them either. Then there’s the group that’s walking with you, hand-in-hand together, and there’s a little competition, so you can’t really go there. We feel exhausted hiding it. It’s in the Bible, it’s the will of God, it’s the Holy Spirit’s activity and ministry. We’re going for this thing. We’re going to be people of one thing. JESUS DIGNIFIED THE WISDOM OF BEING A PERSON OF ONE THING There are three primary verses I use when I talk about the people of one thing. I’ll probably quote them a half a dozen times. These are three verses that are good to know. Jesus said it. Most of you know the passage; in Luke 10:42, He’s talking to Martha about her little sister, Mary. He says, “Martha, your little sister does this one thing” (Lk. 10:42, paraphrased). He uses the phrase, “This one thing.” Jesus dignified before the human soul the wisdom of being a person of one thing. We don’t have to apologize for being a man or woman of one thing. King David spoke in the same spirit in Psalm 27:4. We all know the verse. King David said, “This one thing: I gaze on His beauty” (Ps. 27:4, paraphrased). Jesus said it to Mary, and it doesn’t get any higher than that; He was describing Mary’s heart. Then we have David saying, “This one thing.” WE DON’T WANT TO LIVE IN THE AFTERGLOW OF YESTERDAY’S VICTORIES Then we have Paul the apostle: “This one thing I do” (Phil. 3:12). He said, “I forget and I press. I press for the goal, the prize of the upward calling. I press. This one thing I do: I forget my victories, I don’t boast in them. I forget my failures, so there’s no condemnation. I push delete on yesterday and press, press, press. This one thing: I press for the upward call. I press in.” I care about yesterday’s victories in the sense that they’re important to the Lord, but I don’t want to live in the afterglow of yesterday’s victories. Do you know what? I don’t want to live in the backfiring, so to speak, of yesterday’s defeat. I want to press in and forget. “This one thing”: I press. We’re going to be a people of one thing. We have to be a people of one thing to enter into fullness. “STRENGTHENED WITH MIGHT THROUGH HIS SPIRIT IN THE INNER MAN” In Ephesians 3:16, Paul explains why he’s pressing; he explains why he’s laboring in prayer. Why are you laboring in prayer? What’s the reason? Why do you posture your heart to receive everything God has? Why are you endeavoring to be a people of one thing? These phrases are so filled; you could go on and on. I’ll skip some of the really important stuff and just get right to the very mountaintop: so that you would be strengthened with might on the inside. Paul said, “I fast and pray for you for one primary thing to happen: that the might of God would be released into your inner man.” He qualifies it in very glorious ways and he gets insight through the Holy Spirit. POSITIONING OURSELVES TO EXPERIENCE THE MIGHT OF GOD There are many, many things to say about this. Basically, it takes God to love God. It takes the power of God to be abandoned to God. We need the might of God touching our human spirits. I want to be a man of prayer, not because I want to prove that I’m dedicated. Many of the people in the false religions have tremendous devotion, and they’re trying to create a reputation in the land that they’re devoted. I don’t care about devotion for the sake CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 6 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org of devotion; I’m desperate in my weakness for the might to touch my spirit. I need might on my spirit, because I want to go somewhere and I can’t go there without might, divine might. I can’t go there by reading books about it; I can’t go there by hearing your story. Your story can encourage me, but there’s only one way I can go forward: through the escort of the Holy Spirit, releasing might to my inner man. That’s very important. A lot of people put the primary emphasis of their life upon the increase of their ministry. We need to put the primary emphasis on receiving might that touches the inner man. We read books about might, we write books about might, we go to conferences about it, we argue about it, we do everything except for positioning ourselves to experience the might of God in the inner man. No one can fake this. No one with wisdom would want to. I don’t want the reputation of it; I want the reality of it in my secret life. In all of thy getting, get the might of God upon your spirit. LIVING IN THE FIERY REALITY OF THE HEART OF GOD It’s the very thing that Paul would go on and say later in Ephesians 6:10. He said, “Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might” (Eph. 6:10). Oh, what a sentence. He goes on to talk about spiritual warfare, and he references this verse in verse 16. He says, “This might will bring you to new heights of God in your heart, but also it will equip you to free others in warfare” (Eph. 6:16, paraphrased). FEELING AND MOVING IN UNITY WITH THE HEART OF GOD This might isn’t something you can fake. It isn’t a certificate you hang on the wall; it’s something you receive in your secret life in God. Again, I don’t want to have the reputation that I’m devout and have a prayer life. I want living reality when all you guys are gone. I don’t want to be an echo; I want to be a voice. I don’t want to memorize phenomenal clichés of mighty men and women of past days; I want to live in the fiery reality of the heart of God. That’s my destiny. That’s your destiny on planet earth. It isn’t enough to get the best clichés and say them and write books on them and get materials and be eclectic and put it all together and have people say, “Wow,” and buy the book. It means nothing. No devil or angel will be moved by your book. I want the kind of thing that moves things in the spirit. The demon said, “Jesus we know and Paul we know, but who are you men” (Acts 19:15, paraphrased)? I want to make an impact in the Spirit, but I want more than that. I want something more than just moving angels and devils. Daniel in Daniel 9 bows his knees and prays and angels start coming. Angels were set to flight by the movements of a man’s heart on the earth. That’s massive to me. That’s massive. Demons were set to flight by the movement of a man’s heart on the earth. It’s impact in the realm of the Spirit, but there’s something more than that. It’s our destiny, it’s our dignity, it’s who I am, to feel and move in unity with the heart of my God forever—not just in eternity, but now. It takes might; it’s the might of God. That might of God is more than just gently pushing people down in prayer lines, maybe saying, “I didn’t really push you,” and having a little debate afterwards. This is might on the inside of me that no devil can touch and no religious argument can steal. They can put you in prison, but the might that’s on the inside neither rust nor moth can destroy. It’s on the inside of you. The martyrs took it to their deaths, and they took it into the resurrection with them. The might of God is our number one inheritance, the internal might of God. It takes God to love God. I don’t mean just the power over demons; I’m talking about the ability to have a weak human heart soaring in the realm of power and light, in the realm of God himself. I like what Paul said in Ephesians 3: “I labor.” Look at verse 14, “I’m fighting for you in prayer. I know the value of might. In all of thy CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 7 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org getting, get this might. Don’t be content in faking someone out. Don’t be content with a reputation that you have it. Get it. I’m fighting for you in prayer to have it” (Eph. 3:14, paraphrased). This is the very thing that Paul fought for in prayer. He wrestled through the night that he would be in his own vein. It’s a radical lifestyle change. When we have the vision of divine might, beloved, there’s nothing you won’t do with the clear visions God wants to give you of divine might. THE LIGHT AND THE DARK SIDE OF FLOWING IN LOVE Know this: the divine might of verse 16 is just one of the important ingredients to the fullness of verse 19. It’s about fullness. We’re after fullness. We’re not just after might in itself; might is indispensible to experience the fullness, the fullness of our heart moving in union and intimacy with God’s heart. It’s the quest, the hunger for fullness. Remember, that hunger is God’s gift to you. That hunger has overwhelming delight and the anguish of feeling abandoned and barren. There are two sides of love when we move in the spirit with our weakness. God uses the one overwhelming love to absolutely empower us and draw us. He uses the hiding of His face for the sake of love, in order to produce meekness and tenderness and dependency, so that in our victory we don’t get raised up in pride. He uses both sides of love. John of the Cross calls it the light and the dark side of flowing in love of God. Again, dark in this context doesn’t mean evil; it means that God hides the release of it from our feeling it. It’s there. It’s true for every single person in this room: if you lose your anguish to have more of God, you’re already going backwards. Our anguish to experience God more isn’t from the devil. Think about it: the devil didn’t give you anguish for God. Your anguish to experience more of God isn’t a deed of the flesh. It isn’t just a religious spirit. The flesh doesn’t produce anguish to know more of God in the human heart. It isn’t the devil, it isn’t the flesh; it’s the work of God in you and in me. I talk to people all the time. They say, “It’s so horrible; God is so far away.” I’m smiling and they just want to reach over and hit me. “What are you smiling about?” I say, “You didn’t have that anguish years ago. Years ago, you never thought about it. Look at how different you are. Look at what has happened to you. You used to hurt because someone didn’t like you. You weren’t popular or famous or rich; you weren’t this, that, and the other. Now you’re in anguish because you can’t discern the invisible presence of God. You’re in anguish over it. Where did that come from? It didn’t come from the devil; it didn’t come from the flesh. That’s the token of God’s hand upon your heart. Stay with it. Get into a marathon pace. Don’t evaluate yourself; don’t evaluate others. Don’t compare; just keep going after it and you’ll have both sides of it in different seasons. Even in the same twenty-four hour period we have both sides of it.” “THAT CHRIST MAY DWELL IN YOUR HEARTS THROUGH FAITH” In verse 17 Paul says, “When this might touches you, there’s something that happens: Jesus dwells in you” (Eph. 3:17a, paraphrased). Let’s say it a little differently: it’s the manifest presence of the Godhead upon your emotions. He isn’t talking about Jesus dwelling within you at the new birth. These Ephesians are already believers. They’re already pretty fervent believers. Is what sense is Paul praying that Jesus would dwell in them? They’re already born again, and they already have the Holy Spirit’s ministry operating in them. He isn’t talking about initial experience; he’s talking about what Jesus said in Revelation 3:20 when He stood at the door CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 8 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org of the Laodiceans. He said, “I’m knocking because I want to come into you and dine with you” (Rev. 3:20, paraphrased). He’s talking about a manifest presence in the midst of believers. JESUS CHANGES OUR EMOTIONAL CHEMISTRY THROUGH DIVINE MIGHT Instead of the word dwell, put the words, “Jesus manifesting His presence on your emotions.” Again, there’s the release and the withholding as expressions of His presence on you. John of the Cross called it “the dark night of the soul,” or, “the dark night of the senses.” He had two different terminologies. Beloved, my weak heart is cleansed by the blood of Jesus. Its own frame and its own design are weak. The very emotions of the Godhead are resting on us, just a little. Jesus is moving, expressing His personality through your personalities, in little tokens, but a little goes a long way. Paul tells us that when divine might touches you, the manifest presence of God changes your chemistry. You’re not perfected in one release of divine might; that’s not what he’s talking about. There are things I love now that I hate, and there are things I used to hate that I now love. That’s Jesus changing my emotional chemistry through divine might. Verse 17a brings you to verse 17b. Notice the word that. There’s a purpose, a divine logic, and it not only motivates Paul in his prayer, it enables him as he trains the people in how to move forward in God. He says, “Number one, let’s fast and pray to release might on your spirit. Might will bring you into an emotional chemistry change, Jesus dwelling on the heart. He will cause you to be rooted and grounded in love” (Eph. 3:17b, paraphrased). This is an agricultural and architectural metaphor: “rooted and grounded.” He’s talking about the foundation of building. These are two of Paul’s favorite metaphors when he talks about the cooperation of the Holy Spirit in the human will. I don’t want to go into that right now, but they’re brilliant. They’re magnificent. I’ve done some study of people who have had great understanding of these metaphors in different commentaries. It’s a brilliant piece of wisdom. Let’s just say this: “awakened inside.” Not only are we feeling God’s love, not only are we feeling God’s heart for ourselves and having some of those moods begin to change a little, but we’re actually beginning to be rooted and awakened in love. The very love of God is imparted, and it’s profoundly a part of who we are now. It’s a permanent change in our being. It’s something that we will have forever and ever. It’s tokens of His presence that take root in our being. They don’t go away. We can quench His presence, but there’s a place where we’re rooted and grounded. There’s a place where it becomes a permanent part of our being, a part of who we are. We’re lovers of God. TO THE MAN OR WOMAN WHO HAS LOVE, EVEN MORE WILL BE GIVEN Then he goes on and he says, “Now, when you’re awakened to love, when it becomes a permanent part of who you are, even in immaturity, you’re a lover of God” (Eph. 3:17b, paraphrased). He says, “When you become a lover, there’s no one who understands love like a lover.” This is the principal of the rich getting richer. This is the principal of Mark 4:24, where Jesus said, “Be very careful what you listen to, because to him who has, even more will be given besides” (Mk. 4:24, paraphrased). To the man or woman who has love, more is given. It’s a strange dynamic; the very impartation of love is what equips you to grow in the ocean of love. To the man or woman who has initial experiences, God says, “If you stay with it, it enlarges your capacity, and you go on into that vast, inexhaustible ocean.” CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 9 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org The lover comprehends love like no one else. I love to teach on the Father heart of God and the passionate heart of the Bridegroom. It’s the first person of the Trinity, the tender Father. It’s the second person of the Trinity, the passionate Bridegroom. There’s something about the Father’s tender love and the Bridegroom’s fiery love; there’s something about it that just throws us into another realm in God. You tell that message to a sincere believer who’s not rooted or grounded in love, and they look at you and say, “Huh. That’s cool. Anyway, let’s go on to build the church and do this.” You say, “Stop. It’s more than cool. The Godhead is in love with you.” They say, “Yeah, that’s neat. I really like that.” Anyway, we’re thinking about the outreach next week, and they don’t grasp it at all. It takes the heart of a lover to be introduced into the new realms of God. I began to devote a bit of energy to the revelation of the Father and the Bridegroom, and I thought I was really going somewhere. Now I know I’m not. As I began to give myself to it, I began to rework in my heart a little of the rooting and grounding in the revelation of love. It begins to be a small part of who I am, not just an insight that touches me here and there, but part of the fabric of my being. That’s what equips you to see the ocean, the realms of love far out beyond. The introductory experiences of love, the experiences of falling into love on the front end, are what prepare you for the inexhaustible ocean, the deeper realms of God. It’s like the aerospace mathematician, or whatever his name was. He was in fifth grade, and he was number one in the class in multiplication. He really thought he knew math. He said, “I was number one in the class. I knew math. Then I went to college and got into calculus, and boy, I really knew math.” Now he’s seventy years old. This is a made-up story. You go to the man and say, “You really know math.” And he says, “No, no, no, I really don’t. I thought I knew math when I was ten, twelve, fifteen, and twenty years old. I don’t know any math. I understand that there’s a world of math out there. I don’t have a clue how those galaxies relate to one another. I don’t know anything.” The further I go in this, the clearer it is that I’m one inch out of the water, at most. I thought I was in Ezekiel 47, overflowing in love. As years go by I have the opposite experience of Ezekiel. He started at the ankles, and he went to the knees, and the loins, and finally to overflowing. I thought I was overflowing a few years ago. The line was up to here. A few years later, I said, “I guess I’m only up to here.” A few years later I said, “Man. I’m in wet sand and the water is just a few feet away. I’ll be in that water in just a short while.” The sand is wet. I look for it carefully; my heel is in dry and my toes are in moist sand. That’s it. I had the reverse experience of Ezekiel. That’s what’s going on here. In other words, it’s the introductory experiences of verse 17a that prepare us for the greater dimensions of love in verse 18: the width, the length, the depth, and the height, comprehending the inexhaustible thrill of the ocean of love. I can say this, and I admit it: I don’t really know what I’m saying, but I know there’s a universe of math out there. I can understand that scientist in the space department who knows that he doesn’t understand math. I understand what he means, just a little. I know just enough to know that there’s a world I have no comprehension of at all. CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 10 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org Paul tells us this: when you begin to comprehend some of the depth, some of the deep stuff, then the comprehension of verse 18 turns into the experience of verse 19. Instead of the word know, put the word experience. Instead of the word know, put the words, “intimate experience.” “FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST COMPELS US” Paul says, “This love compels me. It drives me from one prison to the next. They beat me, they threaten me, but this thing is alive in me. I can’t stop, and they tell me they’ll beat me again” (2 Cor. 5:14, paraphrased). He says, “I’m driven by the experience of incomprehensible love. I know the logic. If I go to the next city, I’ll get hit really hard again.” “I say, ‘I’m not going. I’ll send Timothy!’ Then I get quiet and that volcanic thing happens in me, that divine compelling, and I say, ‘I’m going, because the power on the inside has more force than the pain of the beating on the outside.” This is the secret of the martyrs at the end of the age: the intimate knowledge. Then verse 19 is the ultimate. He says, “Why? So that in the relative sense we could have all that God will give the human heart.” That’s what contemplative prayer is about. Well, I have to measure it a little, but this is one of the really classic chapters on contemplative prayer. Again, tomorrow morning I’ll have some notes for you, and I’ll talk about some definitions and some pathways to contemplative prayer. A few more ideas and then I’ll pray for you. The pathway to contemplative prayer, to the inward life, is enjoying intimacy with God. It’s more than intercession, more than praying for the sick. Oh, I love those. This isn’t for the faint of heart, this journey. You can be weak; I’m really weak. If the weak are invited, I qualify. There’s a strange thing going on in the land today. The Body of Christ has a billion in the earth. It’s a very small number. The Protestant wing of the Western church is nearly 98 percent unaware that the Holy Spirit is restoring contemplative prayer, bringing it center stage to the Church. I come and go. I don’t ever want to be a know-it-all hot shot, and go somewhere; I don’t even know what’s going on. I don’t even want to do that stuff. I want to get might and be lost in love. I don’t want to be one of those, “I know more than you know” people. I’ve tried that, and it wore me out. It’s so exhausting. Then you get the tar beat out of you, because their spirit is as feisty as yours. It’s a huge waste of time. Anyway, the Western, Protestant end of the Body of Christ is almost entirely unaware of this. DO WE CALL THEM “CONTEMPLATIVES” OR “MYSTICS”? Do you know who picked up on it? Of all people, it was Barnes & Noble. I don’t know if they have a prophet in there, or if they have really smart entrepreneurs. I don’t know when this happened; it may have been five years ago. I’m one of those guys who go get the Starbucks, sit in the chair, read the books, and don’t buy them. Sometimes I accidentally mark in them, and then I have to buy them. Anyway, I like the whole Barnes & Noble deal. I’ve been going there for ten or fifteen years. First there was a book on prayer here and there; then they got this big religious section, and then there were one or two books on contemplation. They call them mystics. I don’t use the word mystics, even though it’s a legitimate term. I don’t want to fight that war. There were so many people who use the word mystics who were so off. I don’t want to argue for them. I don’t want to say who was and who wasn’t, so I’m just saying, “contemplative prayer,” but I mean the mystics. CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 11 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org Even in our work here at IHOP-KC I say, “Let’s just stay with contemplative.” Again, there were plenty of people who were really in profound error who somehow ended up on some list of the great mystics. We’re just lovesick for Jesus. We just do Jesus. I don’t know what groups do what, but we’re really going after the Man Christ Jesus under the grace of God the Father by the Holy Spirit. I don’t want to go into the semantics, the debates, who was and who wasn’t, because they’re all lumped together in one giant category. It’s sad to me, because it obscures the glory of what’s in front of the Body of Christ. I call them contemplatives. It isn’t wrong to use the other, but I have limited time for arguments. I don’t have time to go there. EVERYONE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST IS CALLED TO THE CONTEMPLATIVE LIFESTYLE Anyway, I went to Barnes & Noble, and initially there were five books on the mystics, the contemplatives. Then a year went by, and there were thirty. I said, “Oh,” and my stack was getting bigger. A year went by, and there were 200! I said, “Someone is figuring something out.” Then there were 500. I’m making up the number, of course. There were shelves of them. I said, “Who is figuring this thing out? How come the leadership of the Body of Christ isn’t figuring this out? Why is Barnes & Noble prophesying to us?” I don’t know if they’re the true prophets. I don’t know if they’re Balaam’s buddy prophets. I don’t know who’s picking up on it, but it’s the word of God. It’s God’s heart. Where are the leaders? Where are the evangelical leaders who are calling the Church? We have Richard Foster; he’s been doing it for years. You have a few here and there. You have Dallas Willard. There are a few. I said, “Lord, let’s go for this.” My prayer is that you would get clear in your soul that this is a now word. This is a kairos hour. We’re in a time frame where God is speaking the call to contemplative prayer, and to lives of contemplative prayer. I don’t mean that you leave your jobs to do it. Some of you will do that. God is calling everyone. Everyone in the Body of Christ is called to live in the contemplative lifestyle—everyone. That’s one of the great strongholds we have to overcome. People think, “Well, if you join IHOP-KC or if you join a monastery or if you can go out into the desert, you can do it.” No, it’s for people who work fifty and sixty hours a week; they have three and four and five children and more. It’s for people in prison. It’s for people in discouragement. It’s for people in all walks of life who say yes to Jesus. We have to get rid of this lie that it’s only for people who quit everything and go to a mountain. We have to get over that hurdle. Barnes & Noble is prophesying it. Hurdle number one is this: we have to understand that contemplative prayer is everyone. Everyone is called to the fullness. Ephesians 3 wasn’t written for one half of 1 percent of the Body of Christ in history. It was written for the whole Body of Christ in all of history. It’s written for people with jobs and families and neighborhoods and pressures. Ephesians 3 is for everyone, and I’m not going to let the devil steal it from me or those who will listen to what I’m saying. We’re all going to go into this thing. CHURCH HISTORY DIDN’T BEGIN WITH MARTIN LUTHER There’s another hindrance that’s bigger than that. It’s a very, very important hindrance we have to dismantle. I say we, but the vast majority of this room is Protestants. A lot of us think that church history began in 1517. We think that when Martin Luther went and nailed those Ninety-five Theses on the door of the church in Wittenberg, church history began. It didn’t begin with Martin Luther. Church history has been going for 2,000 years, not 500 years. Some of the brightest lights in all of history were blazing a thousand years before Martin Luther. CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 12 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org I understand the reasons, but I’ll take liberties and not be totally honest here: historians call that period of time “the dark ages.” There are good reasons for that, but forget those good reasons for a moment and let me say this. The brightest lights in history were man and women of abandonment in the dark ages. Somewhere we have to say, “The dark ages with luminaries in the grace of God.” We don’t count them: they were Catholic priests; they can’t be bright! It has to be the dark ages. We’re Protestants. I tell you, I haven’t studied it intensely, but certainly with more than a casual interest. I’ve studied the lives of the mystics and the contemplatives through history. Clearly, the most inspiring, compelling examples in my world have come out of the Catholic dark ages. I can’t find anything like it in modern times in America in the Protestant world. “We can’t do that, because don’t they do those other funny things?” Well, some of them might do some funny things, but I guarantee you that when you stand before the Lord, you’ll understand that you did some funny things too. It’s this idea that we have to find the group that doesn’t do anything funny—where are we going to go? Not to Kansas City, that’s for sure. I really mean that. I love what Paul Cain says: “Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” We have to be able to go and receive where God has rested His presence in history, and some of our examples will have Catholic roots in history. You don’t have to accept all the dogma of the Catholic church to receive the inspiration of lives of abandonment today—lives that we know of, lives that burn today. We need a little Holy Spirit, catalytic jump start. We need to see where a few have gone before us and say, “If they did it, we can do it, and more,” and if you want to go deep in that way, I’m sad to say, the vast majority of your roots in history will be Catholic. You don’t have to accept all the dogma of the Catholic church to receive the inspiration of lives of abandonment. I’m not intimidated by that. I have books by Protestants and Catholics; we’re getting them out there. I don’t tell people, “Wait until it’s perfect before you read it.” I have very few books that are perfect. I say, “Use discernment. Read the Bible with discernment, and read and know what part is in the Word of God, and be inspired and move forward.” THE EARLY EXCITEMENT AND PROMISE OF THE JESUS MOVEMENT I’ll give just a little of my history. I’m out of time. I met the Lord in 1971, thirty years ago this summer. After I met the Lord I was involved in a fiery youth group. The youth group grew from about 200 to about 1,200 in a single year in the midst of the Jesus movement. Some of you remember those times. How many of you can remember the early 1970s, when the hippies were all coming in? Everyone was getting saved, and the numbers were amazing. My leaders were leaders in Campus Crusade, and they told us all about prayer and revival and evangelism and the Great Commission, and we loved it. We fed our lives on the missionary biographies. We had a vision to go hard. Then, after we did the evangelism thing for a few years, we figured out that it wasn’t working very well. We wanted to go win the world, but almost no one was responding after the wave of the Jesus movement lifted. Then, in the natural process of the Holy Spirit, the leaders said, “We have to find ways to interact with God through fasting and prayer to release more so that we can do what these great missionaries did in history.” We kind of endured the idea of fasting and prayer in order to fulfil the Great Commission. We endured God in order to serve God. We wanted to be great missionaries and evangelists, but we didn’t want to have to mess with God—really getting close and overcoming all the obstacles and living lives of abandonment and learning the CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 13 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org ways of the Spirit in prayer. We didn’t want to do that; we just wanted to serve Him. Maybe someone would write a biography about us, and then we made it. This was in the mid-1970s—1973, 1974, and 1975. I really began to say yes to this thing called prayer. I read a whole bunch of books on prayer and I didn’t like it at all. Prayer was one of the things I hated. There were four things I hated; I say it all the time. I hated prayer, I hated fasting, I hated witnessing, and I hated Bible study. I really did. I loved God and loved meetings. Bible study was the easiest of the four great, horrible things, especially if it was a group Bible study, because I could talk all the time. Bible study was the least worst of the bad things; then evangelism was probably the second. But prayer and fasting? Ugh, forget it! The men who were over me said, “You have to do this.” I said, “What a drag. If that’s the only way I can go forward, I’ll do it. I don’t like it, but I’ll do it.” I read a bunch of books on prayer. It was uncomely. You couldn’t have convinced me that twenty-five years later I would be involved in a prayer movement. I would have said, “No, you really have the wrong man. Preaching on fasting? No way.” I figured out every way to get the job done without prayer and fasting. I experienced one of the great privileges of my life, in a natural sense, a month or two ago. I got to spend part of an afternoon with Bill Bright, who’s eighty years old. Through his ministry he has led more people to the Lord than any living person in history. He was sitting there at eighty years old, and we were talking. He said, “After fifty years of doing it, I’ve learned one thing: it doesn’t work apart from prayer.” He’s eighty years old; he looked at me and said, “Young man…” I said, “I’ll take it!” He said, “If you’ll buy into this in your youth and never back out, you’ll be wiser for it. It doesn’t work; and if anyone can say that, I can. It doesn’t work without prayer and fasting.” Wow! What a powerful privilege to hear the wisdom and conclusions of a man like that. Anyway, I was reading this book in 1976—not that the date matters. I couldn’t remember where I was when I was reading it. This man said, “I have prayed Ephesians 1:17 and Ephesians 3:16 thousands of times, for years and years.” I said, “What? Ephesians 1:17 and Ephesians 3:16? OK.” So I wrote it down, read Ephesians 1:17 and Ephesians 3:16, and said, “These are the strangest, most confusing prayers I have ever imagined,” but out of sheer desperation, I put them on this list and prayed them everyday. I prayed them, and I had this prayer list that I went through over, and over, and over again. The only way I could pray for any length of time at all was by reading the same prayer list over and over. I didn’t know what to say if I got off of the list. My goal was to pray for an hour a day. This is horrible, but I said, “I have to do this forever. I hope in the resurrection it changes. I can do this for fifty years, but I can’t do it for billions. There’s no way I can do this for billions of years.” CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 14 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org I had these ten or twenty prayers, and Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 3 were at the top of the list because this book said it. He said he liked it, so I said, “I’ll try it for a year or two.” I stayed with it for some years. I had no idea that I had stumbled right into the middle of the heart of God. I started praying Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 3. Some years went by, and it was the summer of 1981, twenty years ago. It was one of the great, life-changing summers of my life. I went on my first extended fast. I was scared to death. I prayed this for literally two or three years, and it might help you. I said, “If You’ll really help me to do a long fast—and not just one of those, ‘Lord, help me,’ I mean You really have to help me—I’ll do one.” The Lord smiled and said, “You know, little man, I love you so much. It isn’t like that, but I’ll help you.” THE LIFE-CHANGING IMPACT OF JOHN G. LAKE AND MADAME GUYON I went on an extended fast in the summer of 1981, and nothing was happening. I ran into two things that changed my life. I ran into the teachings of a man whom I read for some weeks during the fast; his name is John G. Lake. I had nothing to do; I was too tired, too moody, too everything, so I tucked away for hours and took naps, drank coffee with triple Sweet n’ Low just to get a little zap from it. It was a water-and-coffee fast, but I figured Sweet n’ Low was legal, so I put a ton of it in there. Let me tell you, it has a bad kick in a few days. I won’t go there now, but don’t do that. Later I’ll talk more in-depth about John G. Lake. I read his writings for weeks, and they totally transformed my life. Someone gave me a little book by Madame Guyon called Experiencing the Depths of Jesus Christ. I could never pronounce her name; I didn’t have a clue what it was about. I read this book ten, twenty, thirty times. It was an extended fast. I read it over and over and over, and I want to say this: there are a number of sentences in this book that I think are really off. This book is so wonderful, but there are a number of things I think are really off. I can’t think of anything that’s perfectly “on” that has the glory of what’s in this book. She let smallpox touch her face and she said, “For the glory of God I will let this disease destroy my beauty.” I wrote, “Dumb!” I did, I wrote, “Dumb!” Because even when I gave someone the book, they saw that and said, “Wow, I guess you didn’t agree with that.” I said, “No, there are a number of things.” It was like a safety net. John G. Lake was saying, “Don’t ever go to a doctor or you sin.” I said, “Wrong!” He was saying, “Get rid of everything that’s sickness.” She was saying, “Everything that’s sickness, go for it.” I was kind of in a collision with my Sweet n’ Low, and I was twenty-five years old; I couldn’t figure it all out, but I know that healing is awesome, and I know that going deep in contemplative prayer is awesome. Somewhere I’ll figure out how they work together. In my CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 15 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org understanding, they profoundly come together, but I never met anyone who says it exactly right. This book is phenomenal, but you’re going to run into some things that are off, in my opinion. I began to go into those two different lines of flowing in the anointing of John G. Lake, the greatest of all Protestant healing ministries. Then, a few years later, there was another book. I’ve talked about this at the other conferences. The man who wrote it was Bernard of Clairvaux. Some of you have never heard of Bernard of Clairvaux. John G. Lake was my hero; Andrew Murray said he had the greatest healing ministry in history. I read the incredible miracles of John G. Lake. I became a John G. Lake fanatic, and, not a scholar, but an eager student, at least. I read all of his stuff over and over and preached it for years. The only life I have ever read that has eclipsed John G. Lake in power healing was Bernard of Clairvaux. There were incredible healings: the lame walking, the blind seeing, hundreds of thousands of converts, demons coming out; he combined the anointing of John G. Lake with the contemplative prayer of Madame Guyon, and his favorite book was the Song of Solomon. He was lovesick with the Bridegroom revelation. There are a number of biographies on him. For me he became the most inspiring life outside the Bible. Some years ago I began to read everything I could. I had many, many books on Bernard of Clairvaux. He put Madame Guyon and John G. Lake together in one package and added the Bride of Christ on top of it. I think you could present a case that he was the most powerful man in the secular, political, and spiritual dimensions in the world. He was born in 1090 and died in 1153; he only lived sixty-three years. He was this little abbot, this young man who had a little monastery. He started it out in the woods, and named the little valley Clairvaux. I mean, it was horrible. He almost starved to death during the first few winters. He named it, “Valley of Life,” Clairvaux. This little monastery began to grow. The powers that be came to him and said they wanted him to be the pope. He said, “No, being the pope is great, but I don’t want to be the pope; I want to be a man of prayer.” He spent his whole life fasting and praying, teaching on the Song of Solomon. He picked his main disciple and said, “Make him pope,” and they made him pope. His main man was pope, and they said, “Bernard is truly the pope because his man listens to him so much.” Then the King of Italy, the King of France, and the King of Germany had such profound respect for Bernard of Clairvaux, his spiritual power, his prophetic ministry, and his ability to cast out devils, that they would listen to anything he said. They were going to war with each other a few times in his ministry. He walked over to the King of Germany and said, “Stop it.” The man said, “OK.” They said, “Bernard is in town. He walked from France to Germany. He wants to meet you.” He said, “No, tell him I’ll stop the war.” Obviously, there are a lot more details than that, but these three men were powerfully impacted. That’s the way those nations were in the twelfth century. He installed the pope, and he had a whole army of people all over the world, casting out devils, healing the sick, and leading hundreds of thousands of people to CONTEMPLATIVE PRAYER – MIKE BICKLE Session 1 Contemplative Prayer: Journey into Fullness Transcript: 07/19/01 Page 16 IHOP–KC Missions Base http://www.IHOP.org Free Teaching Library http://www.MikeBickle.org Jesus. But Bernard said, “All I want to do is go back home and live in my little room, praying, fasting, and studying Song of Solomon.” I fell in love with this man. You want to get rocked? Read the life of Bernard of Clairvoux. He made a few real blunders, and he said some things that, in my opinion, were wrong, wrong, wrong. But I hear the Holy Spirit whispering, “Yes, but he has so much more right than you have.” It’s really true. I would say the most influential life in my thirty years of walking with the Lord is Bernard of Clairvaux. John G. Lake would be number two. My old faithful, David Brainerd, the missionary to the Indians, would be number three. Then finally, just three or four years ago, this phenomenal book came out by Father Thomas Dubay. It was a bestseller all over the world—Protestants have never heard of it—called Fire Within. He takes probably the two greatest examples of contemplative prayer. John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila were friends. They lived in the sixteenth century at the same time. They worked in the same place for a season in Spain, and somewhere in their soul with God they both said, “We’re going for it with God in the deeper life.” They’re two of the shining examples, and they’ve articulated with such clarity the way of deeper life in God. You go to the Protestants and they say, “Wasn’t he one of the dark night men or something?” He was one of the greatest flaming hearts of love in all history, along with Bernard of Clairvaux, John G. Lake, and Teresa of Avila. There are plenty of things that I would say differently, but they have so much right that I can’t throw them away because of what’s wrong, because there’s too much right to dismiss them. We’re in great need in the Protestant world right now for some examples that will beckon us into the fullness of God. I don’t know of any passage more relevant than Ephesians 3 for the fullness of God. Amen. So that’s a little introduction. Let’s stand. Source mikebickle.org.edgesuite.net/MikeBickleVOD/2001/20010719-T-Contemplative_Prayer-Journey_into_Fullness_CTP01.pdf About these ads Share this: Share Like this:
  85. God is God. It is by what HE chooses, Steve. It is not by what I personally set-up in order to ALLOW for it to happen.

    A what point do you bow to Jesus’ authority? Lord, you’re God and all..but I have to “do” this before you can speak to me? Or move on my behalf?

    I don’t think so, Steve. Time for that one on one, me and you, God – no special breaths or emptying of my mind, but just my sheer adoration of You and Your act of love – Your sacrifice for me. And no, Lord, I sure don’t deserve it ON MY OWN, but because of you, I accept Your gift given, wrapped up in love, to me.

  86. Some need to empty there mind out. Only then can we renew and begin again on the road of unity, love, and fellowship. Our battle is against the devil. Our battle is against our own darkness not finding them in others. IHOP is doing a great job. Not perfectly. But great. You who judge another. You will (and are already) judged in the same way. We need to forgive and let go thoughs who harmed us. You seemingly have not followed these simple teachings. In fact you have established a ministry of judgment against other people. In this case Mike Bickle. You need to repent and start over with freedom in Christ, release your captives, restore your broken heart, and rejoice of the day of God’s favor.

  87. Annuk,

    Again, I don’t understand how you were able to get so caught up in doing a mans work, following a mans vision to the point where it almost destroyed your family? I know a bit about following a man’s vision down a spiral to the abyss, but how is it, when you have a personal relationship and an active life style with the holy spirit you are able to fall in such a trap? Control, manipulation? Sure! But that screams victim, you aren’t really taking any responsibility for CHOOSING to sell your soul and family to a movement knowing this wonderful God we serve doesn’t look like that nor did he ask you to do that, you selling out to a mans vision or movement at the sake of your well being and your family looks nothing like God, it looks very much like man, and personal ambition, I don’t understand when you say you have 30 year of (religion) because that is simply what it is and then turn around and blame someone for the devastation of your life by your own choices?

    This is my point, I to grew up in a home full of the word (my parents were pastors) I spent 2 years in bible school and 7 on the mission field. I too was sold out in my 20’s to a mans vision, and abandoned all common sense at the detriment of my family as well. But as I got out of it, I realized something, personal motives, ambition, insecurities wanting to be a part of something but not understanding what that looked like in God’s eyes not really getting to know Jesus and the Holy spirit as the gift and comforter given to us by God, I knew religion, I knew how to operate in his power, I knew his word, but I did not have a direction or strategy for my own life because I allowed a man to take that place to be part of a movement when God didn’t even call me to do that.

    I found a great many young people like myself sold out to the vision yet not listening or getting in tuned with the spirit living inside them to find clear direction for their lives, God can do much better then that. Serving God doesn’t look like the abandoning the raising of your children to church workers, going to church 7 days a week, giving all of yourself to a cause or purpose neglecting your health, well being, personal growth, your family…GOD doesn’t look like that, the perspective is off, the priorities are off, people do stuff like that out of their own insecurities, out of their own lack of understanding and knowledge of how God operates in their own personal life, which by the way, “their” responsibility not anyone else’s but theirs

    What I took out of the situation is this, I found out that a pastor or leader should never be taking the place of your Father God, direction comes from your relationship with Him not man, I gained the understanding that abandoning all common sense (God gave you) is not what God looks like, he expects you to use your brain, he expects you to develop a good core relationship with the Holy Spirit that he gave you, he expects you to take responsibility for what you are choosing to believe and what or who you choose to put your trust in. He gave that responsibility to us and all individuals, your pastor or leader doesn’t define your beliefs, your pastor doesn’t tell you who you are, and what your called to do. God tells you this, why are we under the assumption we are to follow anyone except the leading of God?

    If God called Mike B, to start a prayer movement, then so be it, If God called people to the movement to dedicate their lives to prayer and fasting then so be it. But if God called someone to the do something different, but that person has issues with themselves as far as who they are, insecure and lacking a full identity in how God made them or who he is in their own person lives, then I would say that is more of the issue, it has to do with you and the way you view God and the way you view yourself.

    I’ve learned the hardest people to see the practical side of God and really hear him and see him for what and who he is, are religious people, are the ones that know the word raised in the word quote scripture yet really have no understanding of how God looks like in their own life.

    I would say anyone including myself, who have followed a man’s vision or movement and have come out of it messed up and hurt (like myself) there is a lesson to be learned no one has the right to control or manipulate you unless you have given them that place in your life, sure out of the ignorance or insecurity but the fact of the matter is God did not and will not ask you to give over your free common sense will to anything, we choose, you chose to allow a mans movement take center stage in your life, and the aftermath isn’t you have come out stronger and learned from it, you are still bitter and still attacking the wrong source. You allowed yourself to be in that position, I would again, ask you to look at yourself and ask yourself why you got into a place with yourself, where a mans movement was able to take over your common sense or your ability to see God for who he is?, the problem isn’t the Mike Bickles of the world the movements will still go on, the problems are the individuals, your insecurities unresolved childhood issues the problem lies in that, its in you, it was in me, movements will go on, people are the ones that need changing, I never learn and grow by following and any man im guided completely in my growth and I apply it accordingly to my walk with Jesus.

  88. Angel, you re made some very valid points and for those reasons, I find myself wondering why you still support someone who promotes contemplative prayer. I’m assuming you’re not familiar with Mike’s still close ties with those who’ve been ousted from KC’s IHOP for reasons of a s#xual nature. (There has been more than one person.)

    I’m not concerned about older, supposedly wiser individuals. The youth however, have my deepest concern, as too many familIes have been torn in half due to them closely adhering to IHOP doctrine.

  89. Mike’s link was taken off the website. No surprise there. That’s right up there with the sudden removal of Tyler Deaton’s name as one of IHOP’s leaders right after Bethany’s murder. Google it……

  90. I believe God can do anything. I believe we must have childlike faith as well. I strongly believe we are SO close to Jesus’ return and that there is great deception today — even within the body of Christ — so great is it, that even the elect are being fooled.

  91. You know how deception gets in the door of believers? It doesn’t come knocking, saying, “Hello. Deception here. May I come in.” Instead, as I’m sure you know, just like a cockroach flattening itself to slide under a door frame, it slithers in.

    That is what’s happening within the body of Christ. And believers are just standing back and nodding their heads.

  92. Annuk,

    please excuse my grammar, English is my second language so its much harder for me to type out things so people understand well.

    I am very familiar with the Mike B of old, where he started who he talks to, I understand your point on contemplative prayer, though I have not heard or seen this being practiced personally, that doesn’t mean your augment doesn’t have weight, when I listen to his teaching and read his material my goal is to gain perspective and understanding on my own personal prayer life and my direction with God alone, the things he has taught on prayer, the Holy Spirit, authority to name a few, has totally changed the dynamic of my prayer life for me and my husband and my family,my point has never changed, when I said you eat the meat and spit out the bones I was referring to things in the body/world like that. I never said scripture had bones but man does. This has been my point all along, I read all of Rob Bells books, people today hate him, Ive learned a lot by his research on love and humanity, does that mean I will support his beliefs and stand behind everything he says? NO, but some of the stuff he has to say has helped me deal with people in my line of work.

    Mike B, has a ton of great information on his website some of it 35 years of research and understanding on so many different subjects, I’m supposed to chuck all of what ive learned and applied to my personal walk with God because he may or may not believe in “some” things that is not biblical? Not everything he is doing is off, How many leaders/pastors in this world teach things that aren’t correctly biblical? I would say ALL of them, also, Ive learned a great deal of information from mike B does that mean I abandon all common sense and take what he says and never search the scriptures and find direction for myself with the holy spirit….not at all

    People in general have to start taking personal responsibility for what they CHOOSE to believe, or believe in, what people do and get into and listen to is a choice, God have us a free will, an intelligent mind and a personal gift called the Holy Spirit to direct us. We have all the tools we need, but people in general have all been lazy in doctrine and allow a man or leader in the place of the holy spirit. People don’t want to be responsible for their choices they want to blame a man they choose to follow, that is ignorant

    I support Mike B in a general sense, the ihop movement I think is great, but wreckless abandonment to anything that isn’t strictly God is not good for anybody, just because a mere man who has in-depth understanding on certain things yet may lack understanding on other things doesn’t mean all is bad. In a “general sense” what he is doing for people like me who decide to take my relationship with God and my understanding of everything I believe into my own hands (as everyone should) it works.

    Mike be could be (and I don’t know this for sure) very wrong on certain things but very on point on other things. This is why you have the holy spirit and this is why cultivating a close relationship with Jesus is the only way to be, I hear tons of doctrinal teachings in my line of work and a lot of it is junk, if I took on everything ive heard and blindly applied it I would be insane by now, but im completely guided by the spirit in side of me. The real issue here is teaching people to cultivate and take an active and mature role in their relationship with God, Jesus his son and helper the Holy Spirit. Everyone has more work to do and everyone has to be more responsible for the things they choose to allow in their own lives….we choose, we decide and really that is the issue

    I will say, I have heard Mike B tell everyone in his messages to research for themselves if you are no sure about something or don’t agree with it, its really that simple, what everyone should be doing is aligning themselves up with what God called them to do, and the only way to get that understanding is to develop the relationship.

  93. Contemplative Prayer “Guidelines include:

    1.Choose a sacred word as the symbol of your intention to consent to God’s presence and action within.
    2.Sitting comfortably and with eyes closed, settle briefly and silently introduce the sacred word as the symbol of your consent to God’s presence and action within.
    3.When engaged with your thoughts*, return ever-so gently to the sacred word.
    4.At the end of the prayer period, remain in silence with eyes closed for a couple of minutes.

    I understand that meditation, contemplative prayer and a ton of other things people adopt and run with, people just do that

    My sister is Greek Orthodox I have been studying the Torah and the Hebrew scriptures for years, I don’t believe in the Trinity but I do believe in God, Son and Holy Spirit. I don’t agree with a lot of things man does and interprets on a basic Christian level, try reading the bible from a Jewish perspective and explain that to people, no one gets it, the thing is, I can give you a list or run down of what I believe back it up with scripture and tell you how great everything in my life is.

    The problem with all of that is, people in general are on their own personal journeys with God and are on many different levels and have many different understandings of things. Lazy is the word I like to throw out but that is just my personal view on the matter

    Most of the stuff out there for someone like me always has junk in it, people that have a good basic understanding of scripture and then apply it to their lives and use common sense, im for it, even in their human error but my life theory is eating the meat and spitting out the bones and living a life the way I see pleasing to my Father and in the process respecting and valuing people on a human level

    the ultimate goal in life is developing direction for your life and fulfilling your purpose with a clear understanding of who you are in him. If you don’t have a good understanding of that then I would encourage everyone to develop that relationship first before they decide to do anything else.

    I have no control over what people decide to believe and do, I myself believe differently then most but I am in no way going to force someone to see my point of view on things, that’s God’s job. Sure I get asked questions all the time and I tell them my view point but that’s if im asked or pursued, If you feel what your doing is what your called to do then so be it. I also think Mike B believes what he is doing is what he is called to do as well, Its kind of like a football game where both teams are praying for guidance and wisdom to win but there is still only one winner.

    I understand, Berean’s devote their lives to the scriptures so stuff like this may be hard for you, I personally adopted the strategy of never arguing with anyone using scripture, (well I try) I feel a practical approach without character attacks or getting into debate wars on scripture is more of a win for me, (there is a time and place) I feel there are so many people that usually have it wrong that there is really no point but I do believe the Holy Spirit has a job he can do if we allow him to

    Ive used some of the prayer principles on IHOP’s website and applied them to my personal life and in my line of work and its been great. I really feel people miss the point and misunderstand his heart, but that happens to me all the time, which im sure happens to you as well, that’s life its not personal its just how people are

  94. Not judging, Hunt. Warning – raising the Hurricane Warning Flag. IF NOTHING ELSE, it at least causes a potential intern/student/victim to take a closer look at IHOP before jumping in.

    Sadly, it hasn’t worked for 100% of the people who’ve stumbled upon this blog, but on the other hand, for others, it has raised enough of a road block to cause them to change their minds about going.

  95. Angel, re-read this blog/story. I personally was not the person who lived with the Bickle family. IHOP, however, caused a very destructive tumult in my family which took years to finally get behind us. I wouldn’t wish that upon anyone.

  96. You make some excellent points. Mike does tell people not to just take his word for it, but “search out what I’m saying – check it out in your own Bibles!”

    Sadly, however, when some have actually done that very thing, and have then voiced their concerns – that they’ve checked their Bibles about what Mike has taught, and the scripture(s) he was using for (name a subject) was taken out of context – that that wasn’t what was meant in that (or those) scripture(s) at all — THEN they’ve been told they need to leave – to be “retrained” either in the Dallas area or in Toronto.

    Worse yet — THEN they’ve had the people they shared a home with, or in classes etc completely shun them. And all because they openly asked questions about things that did not line up with God’s Word.

  97. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=contemplative%20prayer%20occult&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CDgQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstandupforthetruth.com%2F2012%2F05%2Fthe-101-of-contemplative-prayer%2F&ei=fLxCUurGMs-o4AObrIGABw&usg=AFQjCNFTx_ngBvBmPk_P6LEKFoRdPWfFWw&bvm=bv.53077864,d.dmg

    Short but to the point — and this is exactly the reason not to be delving into an organization that mixes a little good in with the bad — or vice versa.

    PS. Regarding that “Trinity” thing — You’ve got a few seeds in the middle, then there’s the white meat around the seeds, and then you’ve got the red or green skin on the outside. Which one of these 3 is the apple?

  98. Annuk,

    I read your comments about you having to go through a situation where you had issues in a cult/church was I wrong? didn’t you say you were hurt by some organization? something about your dad helping you out of it? im not referring to this blog I read one of your comments? was I wrong?

    Anyway, Jews don’t believe in the” Trinity so to speak” God is one, but like I said in my previous post, you would not even begin to understand the scriptures from my point of view, or even from a Greek view, but really that doesn’t matter, Im not on here to ask you about what you think about my beliefs, I stated that knowing you would have something to say about it, but I also did that simply for you to see that everyone and every ministry thinks they have it right, ….no one does,( eating meat and spitting bones) ugh, you act like you don’t know what im talking about? There are no seeds in meat, and “really”, after all I have written, you still choose not to understand my point.

    I will not be getting into a belief or scripture battle with you, I feel we can improve this process by doing things a “different way”. Ive read some of the postings on here, (insanity) doing the same thing expecting different results

    Honestly, who really cares about MB’s views on contemplative prayer, you waste your time on this, I understand a monk found a book and (bla bla) anyone that has an issue with it shouldn’t do it, you do realize that most people do stuff that isn’t scriptural all the time?, why not go against all the other stuff people are doing? my point has been the same everytime, most people have it wrong including you, If people voice their opinions or disagree with him and then they get the cold shoulder then I guess its’ a wrong fit for them right? This is my point all along,, I believe Mike B is looking for people to be sold out to the cause, and therefore it isn’t going to work out for the ones that don’t want to follow the vision.

    People on here voice their opinions and don’t agree with you and look at your behavior towards them, simply because they don’t agree…it’s all relative isn’t it?… I don’t agree with you and what your doing but that doesn’t mean I can’t talk to you or even listen to what you have to say. (same point) Im all for open dialogue and discussions as long as people can respect one another as human beings and be adults.

    If you want the young people to listen to you, improve your tactics, maybe get a better game plan or maybe ask the Holy Spirit what he thinks about it, from my experience the holy spirit is an expert on direction and strategy plans, and maybe there is a way to teach the younger people how to hear from God and direct them to that, but I will tell you, humanity has always been fickle like that, the Israelites had God in their face and wanted a king instead, go figure.

    Again, ihop has done some great things for our community here, and I have learned a lot of practical information off his website, 35 years of research does account for something, I don’t believe anyone should sell out to any movement. But I feel this has become redundant it really doesn’t matter what you or I believe, The main issue here isn’t the Mike Bickles of the world, the problem lies in the individuals, there is always movements and cults going on, but your faith and direction has to be in God, I don’t have a problem with anyone taking a stand against what they feel is wrong, I think you believe what your doing is right and I understand that, sure I think your focus is off and your time could be better utilized for this purpose, but again, just because I think that doesn’t mean you agree or will change what your doing

    I think what im doing is right and good as well, I opened a foundation 4 years ago and it has done so much for people in need, I love what God called me to do, its so fulfilling knowing who you are and doing what your called to do, I feel doctrinal augments don’t even compare to what is going on in this world, if you put things in perspective some things just don’t matter… but, that’s just me.

    If the people want a leader let them follow, maybe you can start an organization to help the ones who are wounded by the church or the movements of man and direct them to learn from their mistakes and teach them how to start a healthy relationship with their father God, that way they can get inspired by the information that’s out there and apply it to their lives and their calling, and use the 35 years of research for what it was meant for.

    I hope if people are contacting you for help you will point them to their father who is the restorer and redeemer of time, after all, he is the one that really should be the focus here not what man is doing or not doing, I think the real issue here even on this blog page should somehow in the end Glorify God but it doesn’t, it still points to man, and doctrinal issues, I think that’s a scheme to keep you busy on stuff, sure if things are in error you can point that out, but the ultimate goal is not being accomplished. The focus should still glorify God in the end.

  99. Annunk – Anyone who would biuld an internet ministry to tear apart another ministry (which is what you do) is wrong. It is as bad as someone who at a time 10 years ago taught contemplitive prayer. Even if IHOP was pushing contemplative prayer, what you are doing is just as bad and is sinful and dark. There is no light in what you do. You cannot justify this under grace either. I have counseled many people over my yeesars. I see personal unresolved anger on your part against Mike. You will not find any healing through the use of this blog, and you will fall deeper and deeper into more grief. You have a broken heart.

  100. Annk,

    I too have come out of a terrible situation as you did, (really bad) I bet we could compare stories and find a pattern ( demonic scheme) is what i like to call it, after hearing story after story you eventually see a pattern and then you realize its not as it seems, but I got healing and I gained a great perspective during my healing process and I found Jesus my deliver and healer of my soul, not only did I find my father God and gain the true understanding of his love, but I was able to understand a lot about myself. I’ve been able to use my experience to help others and have since do it in my line of work

    All debate aside, on a personal level, im glad you are out, I don’t agree with your tactics simply because I honestly think the focus is off, I would just do things very different, actually I do, but again that’s your choice

    Now. I do like a good debate so back to the ring

  101. IHOP has brought many out of the stronghold of religion. Mike brings scriptures to life in people. God’s plan is in the scriptures and God is moving on His plans. There is one more kingdom to come (according to Daniel). It is the fifth one he mentions. That Kingdom is the Kingdom of our Christ. IHOP is ministering to this cause and call. IHOP is a wake-up call to the body of Christ. IHOP’s vision is from the Lord. IHOP is on track with God’s movement on the earth. We need to support anyone who supports end time biblical revelation. Discrediting the move of IHOP simply because of a few mistakes does not give anyone permission to establish a ministry that has a vision and mission to destroy IHOP.

  102. …the stronghold of religion… Hmmm… That’s right up there with the non-Webster’s title: Religiosity.

    Are our bodies not the Temple of the Holy Spirit? Are we not to have the mind of Christ?

    We need to support ministries that grow new grow new believers in Christ. But when they. Is the good in with the bad, deception seeps in — such as with IHOP and contemplative prayer.

  103. The Kingdom of God is within us. While Christ will come again at the end of this age, we are given a commission to spread the Gospel, the Good News, that we are saved by faith in Jesus. We confess the faith of Christ Crucified, proclaim His resurrection and share in His eternal priesthood. This is what Christians do. We submit ourselves, our souls and bodies to His will and consider this a right sacrifice for us to make. We do NOT, however, submit ourselves to a cult of people who think they have all the right answers and are counting kingdoms out of the Book of Daniel trying to predict the end of the world. In fact, if the world was clearly coming to a tragic period – perhaps its end, we would likely be more interested in helping our neighbors in their distress, comforting them with words of Scripture, giving them the coat off our back, inviting them to a meal at our house – RATHER THAN being like the secretive “heaven’s gate” cult in which everything was about them and their demented predictions. Don’t be a sad little “jot” in the history of the world. Rather join with Christians world-wide in what we all are called to do.

  104. Hello Mike,

    How very interesting that what you’ve stated here begins with such humility and yet ends with what comes across as a seething attitude. I’ve never considered anyone who has accepted The Lord Jesus a “jot”.

    I have major problems with ANY organization or ANY teacher who advocates centering or contemplative prayer, or labyrinths — as all of them are New Age and began within eastern religions. How interesting that their entrance into the Christian world came by way of Catholic monks ions ago. Yet IHOP is in great admiration of these teachings as well of Catholicism.

    Heaven’s Gate? That’s a no-brainier as far as ‘easy to recognize’ cults go. It’s the ones that introduce its followers into deceptions (such as noted above) that are not so easy to recognize. Those are the ones that I believe are the truly dangerous. But then God did warn us about the great deception that would occur – that if it were possible,it would deceive even the very elect.

  105. I love debating with believers in The Lord. It isn’t so much debate, however, as it is iron sharpening iron. Nes pa?

    IHOP was not something that I was personally connected with, however, I am very personally connected with my child – who WAS with IHOP. I thank God those days are truly over, but now, in obedience to Him, I try very hard to not only be a Berean (always checking His word to make sure what I’m being taught is actually in there) but am also standing as a Watchman ‘on the wall’ so to speak. Always warning other believers to beware of these marvelous “new” lessons everyone’s talking about..

  106. I understand a Bereans charge I’ve known a few in my life time, it’s a terrible thing your child went through that, hopefully in all of this he has found the true charge of knowing who Jesus his redeemer is? It took me some time to get my healing and perspective. What I would take away from that kind of thing, is really gain understanding of who your father God is, and who he really desires to be in your life. Gain a true understanding of who “you are”
    that only comes from time spent with Him. Getting to know how he created you and who you are in him. Learning about yourself in the process was key to my healing, why I allowed things and influences to take a center stage in my life really had to do with myself and my understanding or the way I veiwed God, God is not who he seems to be on a surface level. He is so much more then we think

    Anyway, the organization I was involved with many years ago still moves on. The problem isn’t the mike bickles of the world, it’s really in the individuals, life goes on movements go on, we either live free or we take that stuff with us and carry it on us like a weight. God still has a plan for everyone but ultimately fellowship with him, direction from him is where we gain our calling no man called me to do any thing and that’s really the point

    My old pastor wrote some amazing books, tons of them, if i named him all of you would know of him and many would have at least one of his books, or heard of one, though he has done some more than questionable things, the information in those books have changed some things in people’s lives , mike Bickel has a series on his website called the authority of the believer, really its good, and has changed the dynamic of my prayer life, I said all that to say, the individual is not who we should ever have our eyes on, deception creeps in everywhere in all things, until man decides that Jesus really is all he needs and direction comes from the core relationship you have with the Holy Spirit it really isn’t about being careful it’s about who you look to and what you decide you will do about nurturing and cultivating your relationship with him first, we have a responsibility to ourselves and to God, we have all the tools we need. people have to view man just as they are, man, life goes on mistakes will be made but man is just that. People have to still get up move on and do what they are called to do…individually

  107. I agree with all you said. I also believe Mike Bickle is NOT the problem and I always pray for nothing less than God’s will in his life.
    I truly believe he will eventually see the truth behind contemplative spirituality and emerging church.

    Again, I agree with what you said.

  108. Annunk,

    Rob Bell is really into that emerging church movement, which I don’t agree with at all, though they do raise a lot of great questions and I have gained some great insight or understanding on “why” they do what they do that still doesn’t mean we take it and run with it, yes as you said, I feel with all these movements there is bound to be a great deal of deception it’s in most of everything “people/man” are doing, but it’s part of the scheme it creeps in, once man makes it about man, direction gets off

    I try to encourage everyone I encounter due to my own personal experience to find God, Jesus his son and have an experience with the comforter and friend the Holy Spirit, do what ever you have to, to really find him, spend the time in that and he will meet you, heal you and give you direction for your life, forgiveness is for me not for them. It’s impowering to know who you are in him.

    That’s great that you pray for him, I do understand when you get to a place where your heart is plyable from just being in his presence that those things just dont matter, that is commendable and though people may misunderstand your heart and motives (including me) it doesn’t matter because you are understood by Him.

  109. While driving home from work today, I had the Pandora app playing some really excellent music – one familiar song of praise after another. Then I listened to about 3 or 4 Keith Green songs – each talking about when we leave this world, we will instantly BE with Him, able to look into His eyes. It was Pure worship.

    Then it hit me that Keith has been able to do that very thing for over 30 years now. Wow. Talk about removing the sting from death. I’m so ready to be with Him.
    But in the meantime, as I wait to go, I share Him and His love wherever and whenever I can with others.

    In the same respect, my heart is broken – I weep for the YOUTH at IHOP who are basing their lives upon Jesus and his love BUT are ALSO believing some New Age mixed in WITH some truths. It took me over 20 years to finally be able to RECOGNIZE the Word of Faith lies I’d been taught. Hard because some truth was mixed in with the heresy and that makes it really tough to tell the two apart.

    Dear Lord Jesus, OPEN Mike’s eyes to the TRUTH of Your Word and Lord, please protect those who are there. Protect their hearts, Lord. Protect their lives, Lord.

  110. Well, I have followed things from afar and I have visited, but live isolated in the vast Canadian wilderness. Since 1999 I have been diligently researching a topic that is directly related to all your trouble.
    The whole church is sadly uninformed of it, so Mike is certainly not the only one who has forced himself into strategies that are not helpful.
    See http://www.enterhisrest.org
    What happened at Asuza Street is also terribly misunderstood -see http://www.enterhisrest.org/charismata/signs_wonders.pdf
    Tom Plumb

  111. Amazing how THIS STORY has never grown within the “full gospel” (I’ve always hated that description) churches, and the Assemblies of God…but the thing made very clear sense.

    Regarding IHOP…I think it’s really tough to admit it to people when you’re wrong. So on that note, I believe IHOP’s leadership have “preached themselves” into believing their own messages and/or ‘prophecies’.
    “After all, it would look bad to tell these kids that I shouldn’t have taught them that…”

  112. When we teach something it does not stop there. What will the young people do with it? Situations keep changing.
    Yes, “full gospel” is a very self-flattering term. Fuller than what s the question. Most people live on such a low spiritual level that it wouldn’t feed a mouse. See the “Charismata” page.
    Tom Plumb

  113. In my 1980’s Word of Faith days, my pastor’s son died from having leukemia. I had, prior to that, intently listened to the many messages about miraculous healing. Therefore, being the 20-something-youngster that I was, had just assumed that God had called the kid home – but it wasn’t until I was in conversation with someone that I was bluntly asked, “Well if it wasn’t leukemia that caused him to die, then what did?!”

    That was an eye opening day. To suddenly realize that God’s word didn’t just DO what it was SENT FORTH to DO – was “the” day I realized you can’t ‘control God’ by His word. That right there almost comes across as laughable now, but it was quite serious then. Just as serious as the fallacy today that “experience” constitutes God’s presence. NO it does NOT.

    And what do ‘full gospel’ churches attribute that experience to? Same question for IHOP.

  114. Control God? Many try to. If I remember correctly Mike used to be a boxer. What a boxer does is to train by taking punishment relentlessly. Occasionally he will have a match that means something. I have brother in law that does the same with music. Decade after decade he carries on in hope of success. Now he is old.
    People who buy lottery tickets do the same……..
    I also seem to remember Mike preaching about how he believes in “dry faith”. I believe differently. I do not carry on in the desert. I have instead always done whatever it takes to stay wet. Through thick and thin I have stayed wet for forty years now.
    The spiritual dimension of regular salvation has limits. If you want to stay wet at some point you have to give in and throw yourself on Him and give Him not only your heart, but your whole heart.
    That is part of the difference between “the wide way” and the “narrow way”.

    see http://www.enterhisrest.org Tom Plumb

  115. dry faith?!!? Seriously?!!? And I thought I’d heard just about everything. Yet I’ll bet the new-to-the-faith, young believers in Christ, hang on every word and use “great teachings” like this as the basis for why they believe and pray the way they do.

    Do you think Mike Bickle and/or other admired IHOP leaders (or teachers and/or leaders from other organizations like it) even remotely consider that there’s even a remote possibility that they could ever be one of those deceived? – since, after all, if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived..

  116. I was deceived into those tactics as a young twenty year old, I believed everything that sounded good, applied it and blindly followed without question,…haha you should have seen us at work, haha

    When I matured and got knocked to the ground I realized that God doesn’t look anything like that, and he wanted me to be free in him, I realized its like that for each individual. People on an individual level have more work to do, God expects all of us to be more responsible for what we choose to believe, he expects us to use our brains and study and read up and develop a relationship with him. Following man or a mans vision is lazy and has been the excuse for not taking responsibility for what God gave you

    Young people need to be only focused on cultivating their relationship with God, Jesus his son and the helper Holy Spirit …that should be their priority only in him, we get our assignments, direction and strategy for what he called us to do, no one has the right to tell you who you are …only your creator knows who you are and what your called to do get with him ” learn of him” and he will help you and direct you …man is flawed, deception is a scheme of the enemy and its a well oiled machine and it seeps in everywhere

    I will tell you …people (humanity) they are fickle the Israelites had God in the flesh coming down to be with them and they wanted a king instead, that tells you something about people ….I’m just saying

    No one could tell me I was wrong in my twenties I was convinced the mans vision I was committed to was all God, I had people warn me, friends and family tell me, but I didn’t listen not until I got knocked on my butt, but I had friends that would come and get involved but then realize it was off and leave, now looking back I realized their common sense stemmed from an understanding of who they were inside, see some people have issues within themselves that stem from childhood, insecurities, daddy issues neglect issues, abuse, things that cause you to fall into a trap of allowing a man to dictate who you are and what you live for.

    After I woke up I realized everyone around me had issues these were all young wounded people looking for a place to belong or something to be part of when really…all of that had to do with how we view God, and how we see ourselves ….it all stems from our relationship with God, it may not be what we think

    The cults will go on, it’s the same scheme just a different day, the young people individually will have to find God the way he was meant to be found or learn to view him as he really is or learn a hard lesson about themselves …there is a lot of turn around for this reason.

    Mike B, was not a boxer his dad was a famous boxer, the thing is, he’s got a very clear vision and plan for what he is doing he has never denied this, we wants people sold out dedicated to this cause (IHOP) people that follow his vision know what he wants…he has a series on his website called contending, he talks directly about what he believes when it comes to reaching God, he also has a series called the Authority of the believer and one called spiritual prayer …he has hundreds of teaching material but those 3 are very good, if we take the information and use it for what it’s meant to be for we wouldn’t have anything to talk about

    Rob Bell has a series called everything is spiritual basically going into great detail how Science is spiritual it’s good

    Do I take all of what Mike B and Rob Bell say and blindly follow him with every word? no but do I take what has helped me learn and grow and keep moving yes …the problem isn’t the mike b’s or the Rob b’s of the world the problem are the individuals people can’t seem to get their focus on what matters most chucking out everything because we don’t agree we miss the point, who is the focus here? It’s always on God …alter the focus change the mindsets you may be surprised in what you find …I’ve reached more unsaved people on a practical level then I ever have in a church or church mindset we aren’t called to saved, safe people you gotta relate to everyone ….God expect you to engage with others of all kinds as the Holy Spirit directs you.

    Deception and wrong will always be here its in the focus, that’s were the problem is

  117. Angel, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. You have, it would at first seem, a grounded and concise focus until you start to mention all the good things about IHOP. Then I see you say one thing, but are really attempting to promote another – namely IHOP and Mike Bickle.

    Did you ever repent from practicing contemplative prayer or is that still something you practice?

  118. ANNUK<

    Bawaaaahaaa, How dare you accuse me of that crap…haha? Who do you really think you are? You will never get me to talk down any ministry…Or any man in the way you have or the way you would like me to, why?, for one, its called being an adult, and for two, you fail to realize for the millionth time, YOUR FOCUS IS OFF!! ,… you spewing out your lies and judgments because I wont take your bait and agree with you, please your tactics are childish, learn how to discuss and debate like an adult. You lose credibility when you accuse and lie about things..people that live in glass houses should really, honestly stop throwing stones

    You have no right to accuse me of something like that, I don't even know anything about that, your so obsessed you can't see straight enough to even have a normal discussion about it, your so stuck on this stupid contemplative prayer junk, its like your paranoid or your simply projecting, or maybe your just "scared"…. and leaven isn't in your camp (mind)? you think your free from deception?? plank in the eye perhaps?

    …. Anyone that falls for this nonsense crazy prayer stuff, obviously has some things to work out with God, I don't know anyone personally who practices contemplative prayer why? Because God is not the difficult to reach, he isn't ookie or complicated, why do you assume that people don't understand what they are doing or have no idea how to reach God and understand who he is in their lives?…get over yourself, the world does not operate this way, do you get out much? you are completely consumed with this stuff, and your tactics, are so ugly, the judgmental part is overwhelming to me, have you really considered changing your thought process? ,….you know its like insanity…(doing the same thing, over and over again, expecting different results)

    The world, needs more from you than this, your better then hiding behind a computer writing up half truths mixed in with lies and judgments about people you don't even know who are doing things you "think" they may be doing…. people, all over your city, all over your nation all over the world are looking for hope, peace and a way to make it through life and you give them this junk about contemplative prayer…oh, don't do it, don't practice it, its new age, its the devil ….OMG, please wake up and get over yourself…. most people don't even have an active prayer life? Have you been out there, have you noticed most of the world doesn't even pray?? have you noticed that the people around you your neighbors, your family, the lady at the store don't really care about your thoughts on demon prayer….most people don't even discipline themselves to pray daily…do you get that????

    wake up and alter your focus,….its that simple

    Mike B. has a series on his website, for anyone that is listening called Contending, its a 4 part series he talks about his vision, what "he" believes about where Ihop is going and what they are doing. Its very clear and raw and to the point.

    I do not attend Ihop, I don't know Mike B. personally, Ive never been to Kansas City, I don't plan on going (I don't care) I do a lot of reading and research on many subjects Mike B is on a very long list of who I listen to and gain information from, im a teacher by nature and by trade and I have always been very active in study and research, I love it, I enjoy matter of fact discussions and when it comes to God, Jesus and the holy spirit, I am secure in who I am in him, who he created me to be and what he called me to do. My direction comes from him alone, Im just an average person who was looking to find hope and I found my savior who redeemed me and gave me life, he also showed me his Love, he really does love us so much, as I started to find my identity in him, he healed me and gave me purpose, I am in return able to help others lost, broken, messed up to find what I found in Him, he is for us and really wants us to live whole so we can bless others….. I have an active relationship with Jesus, I call him my friend I believe in fellowshipping with him daily and I believe in the Holy Spirit as a guide and comforter. its just that simple

    Every ministry has bad and good in them….you will never find any church, any minister or any movement where there isn't deception in it…its in all things man is doing, if you think for one second you are right and everyone else is wrong, guess what, your the one deceived, ….sin, deception its in everything but God, he knows and the holy Spirit's job is to show you a way through ….that is life, that is how life is we are all in this together

  119. This is “the other” Mike Bickel (with an “el” on the end). While this continuing rant is very interesting to me, and don’t get me wrong… I certainly don’t want people ever to get caught up in any cult…BUT… let me make a couple of quick points (I’ve posted way up north in this rant so you can see my previous comments):

    1. I have run into numerous non-cult people (including my own niece) who have said great things about Mike Bickle and how it started something up in their life. He started earlier in the St. Louis area where I live and I’ve heard plenty of good things from folks there as well as California, Florida and other states across the union.

    2. We should remember that Paul was allegedly taught by a man named Gamaliel who also made a great statement to those who were trying to stop the early Christians right after the Pentecost: “And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.”

    I think we need to watch and see….. not rant and hate. God truly IS in control.

  120. My dear, your “active relationship with Jesus” is something of which only you and He are privy to its true depth. For as much good that IHOP has done, praise God, IHOP has done equally as much if not more damage. Damage to young hearts, minds and sadly, relationships. Families have been torn apart by IHOP. Were you actually aware of that?

    You are more than welcome to berate me personally, but this post – this blog is being written only in an attempt to raise a warning flag to other families and/or those who may be considering attending.

    If you’re listening to Mike B as you say you are, then you must think contemplative prayer is AOK. One more time – it’s TM. An open door for familiar spirits to enter into the person practicing it. YOU might not practice it (as you said), but Mike has encouraged all the others to practice it regularly.

    Sweetie, I am not “obsessed” about that as you said…but I have been convicted in my heart that His return is so near and yet many within the body are walking around thinking they’ve got oil overflowing when instead, their lamps are empty.

  121. My relationship with Jesus is amazing, maybe you don’t understand that about Jesus or maybe I’m just lying, either way don’t take my word for it, try it yourself …since I actually listen to some of MB’s teachings I’ve never heard him force or talk about this demon prayer he does, if for some reason I come across it ill be sure not to do it, as I dont feel I need to do that to reach God I will just move to the next sermon.

    Thanks for the heads up

  122. Annuk,
    I noticed you convently didn’t post my last message about your fake concerns about Oil? Would you mind disclosing why? I felt it had wonderful things to debate about, since this is a blog, others may read and gain perspective on the real agenda that should be displayed …

  123. Who honestly cares what many in the body “think” about their oil, God says you will know them by their fruit, I’ve seen the debacle called the church , people have a lot of work to do “sweetie” haha really, you want to play the condescending game now? Perhaps to feel more righteous, more mature than how you are behaving ?

    Pharisees (the name means separated one ) self appointed …not God appointed, Committed to the Study of scriptures. And you know how Jesus felt about them, they saw the scriptures yet still didn’t see the truth ….just saying

    Do you know how many ministries have destroyed families? And continue to destroy lives? There is offense, lies, sin and insecurity in ALL of them, People in general do not know “who they are”, the church has no idea who they are, and what they are doing, anyone that takes the time to look, pray and study can see this, this has nothing to do with the Mike Bickles this soley has to do with who “you” are.

    Tell the people to get a prayer life (haha) a normal one, , tell them to get direction from Him first,, lead them to the one the one that is honest and can heal them and show them the correct way to follow GOD, tell them that OFFENCE, BITTERNESS, UNFORGIVENESS is like cancer and God tells us not to allow it in our hearts as it will manipulate and consume us…Tell them that MAN, is not our go to (as the Israelites wanted) , everyone that has come to you about the hurt of a ministry has allowed man into the area where God is supposed to be, every single one has put a man in the place of common sense …and have allowed these men to do the work they were responsible for in their own personal lives ….it’s a tough lesson to learn but it is a lesson people will have to learn no matter what

    Prayer isn’t complicated God is easy to reach, there is no need for the bells and whistles, and the demons to reach him, most people understand this, that is the main reason we have the Holy Spirit our guide, our friend, our helper

    You don’t really listen that well, obsession? I have repeated myself a numerous amount of times, ive given personal story references explained the same thing many different ways yet you have still been been very stubborn, offended and thick headed its literately like talking to a child.

    have I not said, mike b is one of many I get information from …many, you assume because I listen to a few sermons ( good ones) of his, I practice demon prayer? Because I listen to him I just blindly follow all he believes …do you do that when you interpret scripture to your own understanding? (that’s so ignorant) your not warning families your fighting with people because they simply dont agree with your tactic in regard to Mike Bickle, it’s such a much more bigger issue here. Being blind and offended trying to lead the blind and offended (sounds like a catch 22)

    Simple question: If deception is in everything man is doing, everywhere, and a little leaven is in all things (which it is) how are you and I going to learn the truth? Could it be that maybe God already knows how humanity is and he knows that ultimate focus on him would allow us to listen to truth read up on truth even knowing that there are misunderstandings and man view points and deception in “ALL” you are studying but he gives us a guide through it all (not a man) but a guide a part of him to show us a way through? Could it be that fear and trust are really what the issue is here?

    You can ignore and pretend but it doesn’t change the fact that what you do is simply a deception and a waste of time…but then again, keeping you on this agenda allows the enemy’s sceme to keep you from doing what you were actually supposed to be doing …..it’s like why are you doing this, when you were created to do THAT? you are operating in the lower levels of your potential (calling) and your God given humanity, when this entire page could be used to glorify God not to glorify your offense and blindness ….another good one taken to the lower level just how the enemy likes it

    could it be that maybe you are deceived? maybe your agenda the way “you” have “decided” to go about this, is this what God looks like? Could this be the witness of God? Perhaps God may know a few things about offense and bitterness …or maybe not, maybe you know better than him, careful your soul is showing up in random areas of offense as you write, oh but that’s Gods will for you right? …..you’re better than this, man is always humiliating himself rather than allowing God to humble them …we are such fickle creatures without the direction of the Holy Spirit ..this is redundant

  124. Angel, like I’ve said before, you’re more than welcome to berate me personally, but this post – this blog is being written only as raising a warning flag to other families and/or those who may be considering making IHOP part of their spiritual diet.

    Regarding the oil from the parable of the virgin’s lamps – Matt 25. There were 10 virgins, so the five wise and the five foolish virgins were all “Bride Candidates” as far as they were concerned.

    In Matt 25:3 we see that the Wise took oil, but the Foolish did not. I’ve heard plenty of different opinions on what that ‘Oil’ is. I’ve personally always looked upon this Oil as a personal question to myself: Am I living my life for Him? Am I filled up enough to where it’s overflowing? But I really think the Oil is tied in with the Oil in Prov. It is found in the dwelling of the Wise (Prov 21:20).

    There were huge differences between the Wise and Foolish Virgins. Verse 10 says, “…they that were ready (the Wise ones) went in with him to the marriage….” But then look at v. 11-12, “Afterward came also the other virgins (the Foolish ones), saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us.’ But he answered and said, ‘Verily I say unto you, I know you not.” i.e. You might THINK that you KNOW ME, but I sure don’t know you!

    This goes right back to that “Bride Candidate” thing. ALL were expecting to be with their groom. The Wise virgins were prepared. They were ready for the moment of marriage by keeping their lamps filled and ready to go. No one was going to get them side-tracked. They were going to be prepared to go.

    IHOP has some good lessons, but some bad lessons are mixed in with them. Can bitter and fresh water come from the same spring? So then comes the scary thing to consider.

    Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’ Matthew 7:21–23

    I am always so amazed at God’s love. I’m always amazed at the thought that He would allow His Son to be sacrificed – for me! I’m truly sorry if I’ve offended you in any way.

  125. Annk,

    I won’t debate or talk with you on scripture, the scriptures weren’t meant to be abused by mans agendas and insecurities (haven’t we seen enough of that already ? ) .., as I continually “observe” the way you “use” scriprure to reprimand and condescend people speaks a lot about your character, hence the Pharisee comment ….your understanding of knowlege has nothing at all to do with God, it has to do with you, the scriptures were meant for one reason …to bring you closer to God, everything written and interpreted was to bring man to Him, first, everything after that well,… a simple check of your motives BEFORE you want to discuss chapter and verse would clear this false agenda right up! Who on this page doesn’t know and understand the Oil lamp parable? You of course have to write it out in baby form to show us something about yourself not about God, yet, you are actually missing a few vital points in your self motivated rant …the most important one would be the timing of it all.

    You do not have to write much to show us how you feel for humanity in general, the blog alone is self righteousness enough .. Jesus hung out with whores and tax collectors “knowing someone by their fruit is inevitable”, I’ve seen how you treat people on here because they don’t agree with your agenda and using scripture as an excuse for what you do on this page is the oldest trick in the book …(pun is intended) we can all see right through it, this is not God being glorified

    Religious people are the hardest people to see truth, reality they are blinded by their own understandings of things their own interpretations their agenda is not God focused its self focus mainly on works and peoformance

    None of what you speak about will be taking place until the church and humanity fall in line …There is much more work to do, and this page isn’t it, its almost unbelievable that you would believe what you are writing in your last rant yet write the stuff you are writing to people on this page? Do you see it or is it really not noticeable to you ?

    Jesus knows a thing or two about how you are supposed to treat others and what you are to be doing with your life today, right now, …you gotta ask him again for direction,…What you posted in your last comment is all about timing” and will only be taking place when those things are dealt with ..PEOPLE all have much more work to do, dont be decieved look at the signs around you you have much more work to do,…the focus, tricky little thing it’s always slightly off

  126. Angelj,

    The last thing I’d said to you was, ‘I am always so amazed at God’s love. I’m always amazed at the thought that He would allow His Son to be sacrificed – for me! I’m truly sorry if I’ve offended you in any way’.

    You said you’ve “seen how I treat people who write in”. Please provide some/any examples to me as I have no idea what I’ve said EXACTLY that you find so hateful on my part. I really would appreciate your pointing these examples out.

    Additionally, you said, ‘None of what you speak about will be taking place until the church and humanity fall in line …’
    Could you please elaborate on that with scriptural reference?

    Thank you!

  127. Again, it’s like talking to a brick wall, you go look at your million posts on how you answer people using your interpretation of scripture (it’s in the entire page?) I will not be getting into scriptural debate with you, I’ve said it from the beginning, I feel you have used this entire page for your agenda, (not Gods)
    and you use your limited “head” knowledge of scripture to debate and reprimand people but it’s simply your understanding of things and your view point …(not God, he looks better than this) he can do better …this is all you and your limited human thought process, and it helps you with your insecurity when it comes to dealing with others.

    Think of me as knowing nothing about scripture, you do not need to see the scriptures from me you already use them in the manner that best suites you and your fake agenda for this blog, your simple rant on the lamps and Oil shows us all your limited and shallow thinking on the matter, its watery and for you to use it as an excuse for this page literatlly blows my mind.

    Yes, I was upset by the fact that you accused me of that stupid demon prayer because I felt you don’t get out much and you are not listening, or intuned so to speak to what is going on around you, you do see that the world doesn’t even pray and you should be focused on helping others find God, but I feel you are wasting your time on things that simply don’t matter much to God but matter more to you and your religious works agenda …

    God loves everyone even in their deceived frame of mind, just because his presence and love shows up in your life walk with him doesn’t mean you are doing things right, people always assume because he shows up its an approval for your behavior, he shows up as your dad even when you do wrong ..that’s his nature it’s not His approval …that’s what unconditional love looks like …he shows up even when your wrong !

    I actually have heard and read up a lot on the Oil/virgin parable, throughout the years, it was actually the core subject on a paper I wrote in bible college years ago (you will just have to take my word for it, or not) It’s funny to me you would use that parable out of so many others to fuel your agenda on this page (simply amazed) yet, I won’t give you what you want to fuel this conversation with me, like I said, think of me as ignorant to the scriptures I have no idea what im talking about and I’m …as you say … AOK, with you thinking that i don’t need to be seen as a Pharisee, God can show up in very practical settings, his word is a bonus, its not meant to create an environment to fuel mans insecurities…you don’t see things correctly, you are thinking that scripture is the thing you have to feel secure running this page, but the entire agenda stems from yourself, your security is in your understanding of scripture that is your footing …because you believe if it’s not scriptural then it’s not God, it’s head knowledge not spiritual knowledge, it’s your practical interpretations of the scriptures that give you confidence …God doesn’t look like that…..Man does, it’s self can’t you see this? God operates different than this…he can do better then what your doing, If you would only let him, your in the way of yourself ….I see scripture as a connection to God not to contend with man, .it’s the way you view yourself and God that’s what is showing up on this page it’s not how God is

    So, I thought since Mike Bickle was someone you contend with I would see his perspective on the Oil/Lamp parable, I got on his website and typed in 10 virgins, would you know he has quite a bit more insight into the endtime movement and a pretty good understanding of how timing plays out, I listen to all 7 audio references on the oil/lamp parable he gives notes and scripture references, I was able to connect them, though it’s a very fimiliar passage to people that study, I learned a few things even from him, about the timing of the church/ individual ministries and the reference of oil, he breaks it down into a good teaching format, in the end I was glad I listened to it

    Thank you, if it wasn’t for the last few comments on this page I would have never thought to hear mike B’s perspective on the 10 virgins parable, but I’m glad I did

  128. How many years and how many hundreds and thousands of hours have you put into dealing with your obsession with Mike Bickle??

    Mike must have really hurt you? Is this like a full time job for you?

    I admit, there are some very concerning issues at IHOP. I know. Keep in mind I was terminated before I even arrived on campus. Why? Because I called in the phony false prophesies of the one and only Bob Jones!! Dean Ditto “Neanderthal brain” gave me the ax. What a loser.

    No doubt there are some staff people who need to be fired. I don’t know? Maybe Mike is a poor administrator?

    His friends are a big concern for me? Bill Johnson? He entertains demons. Revival demons. Watch the 2 minute mark at youtube of “Rick Joyner circus”. The whole thing is 100% demonic. The greatest manifestation I have ever seen!

    What ever. I don’t think Jesus is gonna have any reward for you for this activity Annuk??

    I stand on my original statement. If IHOP is not for you then leave. I don’t think it is for everybody. Maybe not even me? My concern is I would show up and be asked t leave within a week.

  129. Annunk (I won’t use your real name)

    First, I am surprised you allowed the post. It was meant to be to you but you got guts to post it.

    Maybe the issue is that since you were so close to Mike you feel compelled to sound an alarm?

    Hmm? I can relate. I may have posted some strong objections to you in the past but for the most part I think we share common ground. Maybe not? Everybody who has passion will usually find some grievous wrong and want to correct it. Stand up and shout about it.

    I went to Regent Law School. This is Pat Robertson’s School in Virginia Beach. I will not even go into the shame, deceit, double standards and out right lies and hypocrisy that come from this man and his Administration. It is a cess pool of filth but I love Professor Sekulow. He is doing a great job at the ACLJ. However, my mother, who has a PhD in Clinical Psychology, taught at Regent and caught 2 students plagiarizing their papers. My mother flunked them both. Pat allowed the grades to be changed to B’s because the girls got an Attorney. Robert McDonnell, who became the Governor of Virginia. Pat’s corrupt political pal. My mother was later fired. Trust me. Regent University is a sham and Pat Robertson is a chronic pathological liar. People do not know the “real” Pat. He is a shameful despicable person.

    My point? Is …… I get your point. You feel compelled to warn. I am strongly criticised for my own obsession with the seed faith prosperity perverts. It is off the charts now. You can go on the 12 – 14 “religious” channels on Direct TV and 1 is Mormon, 1 is Catholic, maybe 2 are evangelical and all the rest are Charismatic/Pentecostal/Word of Faith. Of those, there will be at least 4 to 8 stations at any time focused totally on “sowing a seed” to the individual speaking. All of these people are prostitutes, who practice witchcraft. Remember, witchcraft is “using manipulation to influence others”. You know their names. Richard “DUI” Roberts, Marilyn “pica witch” Hickey,. Mike “charlatan” Murdock, Todd Koontz, Cashflow Dollar, Fast Freddy Price, Steve Muncey, and homosexual TBN Funny Farm President Paul Crouch. Not to mention Miss “I got my panties off” Paula White. You would think her sexual fling with Benny Hinn in Rome while seeing the Pope would have alerted everyone to why her husband divorced her? I won’t even go into all the false prophets on TV. It’s a manure pile full.

    In conclusion, I am not against you or anyone else warning anyone on IHOP. It just seems you put an awful lot of energy and time int it. However, I have read posts by IHOP students who were crying about nothing. Total brats, which is why I advocate the “pick up and go home” solution.

    God told me in 2009 in reference to IHOP, “I am pulling it all together. I am turning it around”

    Has this happened? Not that I can see? I was outraged at Mike allowing the most dangerous man I know, Bill Johnson to come to IHOP It was in the last year or so? It’s on youtube.

    Mike just doesn’t learn does he? Johnson dabbles in demonic powers. The Kundalini spirit is alive and well in his services. Bickle exposes IHOP students to this false spirit realm by inviting Bill Johnson. Shame on Mike.

  130. Let me take just a moment to explain. IHOP and all of the various ones who both attended there and were in leadership were 100% responsible for causing my child to turn against me for over four years. The saddest part is that we’re not talking about a 16 or 17-year-old kid were talking about a grown adult. To clarify, someone who is nearing 30 years old. Additionally, someone who had been raised on God’s word praying with his family at night and in the daytime’s and discussion all the time of the Bible and how God spoke to us thru it, was frequent. Then suddenly, while he was at an accredited university, some good good friend turned him on to the wonders and amazement of IHOP in Kansas City. The scholarshipnhe was going to school on suddenly became null and void. He had suddenly made the decision that he belonged in Kansas City at some school called IHOP. Only later did I learn that no, he was not going there to study to become a minister, but rather he was going to and UNaccredited school to learn Bible study. The trouble I had with this was if it was not an accredited school, then what made the “Bible study” worth it’s weight in gold? And WHY call it a ‘university”?!

    LONG story short: my kid is no longer a kid, and he eventually left IHOP praise God. So in the meantime, I try and warn other parents from encouraging their child to go to a school that they mistakenly believe will train them to be a minister. Such is absolutely not the case with Ihop

  131. I have heard these kinds of testimonies about IHOP and it is very concerning to me

    First, IHOP is a Bible Training Center like Rhema in Tulsa. Not a Bible School or University, though my legal guess is the word University does not have to lend itself to be accredited?
    Thus, one can use the word without violating any restrictions.

    Accredited schools have the advantage of being under the supervision of regulatory and academic boards. Such as the ABA accrediting my law school Regent. Seminaries use the same concept.

    Currently, I am pondering Dallas Theological. I would consider Fuller but it is in California and I see divine trouble coming the Golden State. It will take a real move of God to confirm a move to KC. I have told God a million times…”they will kick me out….you know me…I will confront leadership and be told to leave”.

    Since you knew Mike Bickle so well, being in his home and all, weren’t you aware of the lack of accreditation or had you just lost touch with him and/or IHOP?

    30 year olds make mistakes. Maybe it will turn out to be a good mistake? God may send an army of new people to turn that place around? Mike seems to have the right heart but there are some serious flaws in his administration. Some of the complaints come from cry babies but other complaints are legitiment. There are issues at IHOP that give a strong scent of a cult or cult type behavior. This is very concerning to me. Mike stands neck deep in denial, just like he does on supporting a man who had women disrobe themselves in private before him and was defrocked by the Vineyard church. Bob Jones is mentally ill.

    I love the forerunner concept. Emphasis on the first commandment and the fasting and prayer emphasis. I like Mike’s “feed em eschatology and intimacy” strategy. It’s the other issues I frown upon. Only God can clean up the mess and broken promises.

  132. David,

    I am not personally “the one” who lived with the Bickle family. Sorry 😉

    You’re right, IHOP is but a Bible Training Center — much as is Rhema. (Of course, Rhema doesn’t hold the proverbial ‘cult’ title that IHOP does, or am I wrong?)

    The big difference is that IHOP had previously TRIED to hook up with ORU. IHOP truly did have the desire to BE an accreditied “university”. ORU, however, explained that in order for it to take IHOP under its wing and thus, provide the accreditation, IHOP would HAVE to have a teaching faculity who HELD DEGREES in their vaious fields of teaching. And sorry, but the ‘teachers’ at IHOP just don’t have ’em.
    ((WHOOPS. That wasn’t in the game plan.))
    Mike Bickle, however, determined that at any rate, IHOP would remain just that — IHOP — but ( ! ) Mike (and maybe even a board of directors..) determined that they did not NEED to be accredited. NOPE. They’d just wear the “university” name badge and run with the ball.

    The only other place that accreditation sort of fouls things up is if and when the day should ever arrive where a student (and/or graduate from IHOP) wants to pursue their educational goals even further — or if they really want that pastorate at that church down the block that a good friend told them they’d be perfect for! THEN they’ve got a problem.
    If a school lacks accreditation, NONE – ZERO – NADA of the credits attained there will transfer to the “accreditated” institution.
    If a new employer/church/wherever, runs a background check on the applicant, the “non-accredited” bell will ring and the person will end up looking somewhat foolish, or worse, deceitful in applying for a position under the premise that they’ve graduated from an accredited university.

    There’s been a lot of bad blood at IHOP such as the name you listed – (others too) – but looking at other churches and/or places like IHOP, I’d say the body of Christ has been pulling itself up out of the mud for a long, long time. But what else is new? Absolutely nothing under the sun.

  133. The problem is not really Mike or IHOP. It is much deeper. We are expecting IHOP to train up extraordinary men of God but the tools to do this have been lost by the church at large.
    I have found these tools back in history. They work. See my unique website at http://www.enterhisrest.org

    Yours in His Service;
    Tom Plumb

  134. Ok, I am confused?

    Is this your website?

    1.) Who lived with Mike Bickle?

    2.) Rhema is not a cult but the problem is their students attend for 2 years and actually believe they are ready to Pastor a church. Were talking about 20, 22, 24 – year old Kenneth Hagin wannabees. They are soooo immature and foolish. The damage by Rhema graduates across the country is immeasurable.

    I knew a guy who went to Rhema. I told him he was not remotely close to being ready to start his own ministry. He ignored me and within a year or so had approx. 90 people in Burton, Michigan in a rented building. He thought he was qualified to be a counselor. He was a fool and then some. He counseled a young women in his office to take off her panties and he preceded to impregnate her. He is now divorced, out of the ministry, damaged people lives and has a son out of wedlock. Congratulations! Welcome to the breakfast club.

    3.) Anyone can claim to have a “University”.

    4.) For further academic endeavors, classes taken from schools like Rhema and IHOP will not be accepted by institutions of higher education

    5.) I think training centers like Rhema and IHOP maybe beneficial to people who just want to take 2 years off and focus on scripture, God’s will for their life and such. I was never impressed that IHOP was a place for ministers as in the 5 fold ministry but forerunners. I guess I would put these people in the ministry of helps or exhortation?

    6.) I am going to disagree with you on the body of Christ pulling itself out of the mud. From where I am sitting, the body of Christ is full of lazy slobs who love grace, wanna sow money to get rich, refuse to pray for themselves and/or others but are willing to send Richard Roberts money for a miracle and defend irresponsible ministers who refuse to be held accountable for false prophesies, false teachings and the practice of witchcraft (manipulation).

  135. This is “Annunk’s” website (short for “Ann unknown”) but NO, I personally did not live with the Bickles. I simply lost a child, now an adult, to IHOP and its various off the wall teachings – including the unofficial teaching that encourages its “interns” to pull away from any and all who openly disagree with IHOP doctrine. This did happen with my child and I. For that, I hold IHOP solely responsible no matter what any of its devotees say. (Sorry guys.)

    I particularly hate the contemplative prayer teaching that Mike Bickle adores. It is nothing but TM and is highly New Age.

    Your points were well taken and I have no disagreement with them. Excellent at that they were.

  136. About 5 years ago we became friends of a some families that had moved to KC for IHOP. We were invited to the prayer room and went a few times. The music was good but the minute Mike Bickle started to speak as if he were Jesus himself – my antena went up. We attended the One Thing event and on New Years Eve I had an experience that has stayed with me and shaped how I personally felt about IHOP after that. Everything inside of me screamed to get out of there and I couldn’t walk fast enough to get out of the building and away from the droning music and the people who were acting possessed. To me, it was clearly an environment that FELT possessed. I never really spoke about it to anyone because we started to distance ourselves from these families and I really didn’t want to judge other people and their way of worshipping. Recently there was a broadcast on NPR about a documentary following some IHOP missionaries to Uganda. Listening to that caused me to want to do some research on IHOP and its beliefs. I found this blog and many others which has confirmed that, even though I didn’t know it at the time, God was protecting me from this group by giving me a keen sense of discernment that night.

    I understand completely what you’re trying to do and why.

  137. Thank God for the discernment He gave you. Talk about!

    When I visited IHOP, I was amazed at how many people were just kicked back, sitting with laptops and weren’t doing anything at all but messing with them. I did, however, watch the crowd cranking up their level of movement when some speaker (Mike Bickle?) went to the podium and told everyone to “really press in and get closer to God”. Then the music began and all I can say is that it was monotonous – same lyrics (also droning) over and over and over. I knew I wasn’t in God’s presence – but there was definitely ‘a presence’ there. I just headed for the door and got out of there.

  138. I have been to the International House of Prayer many times. I was walking in complete and utter deception.

    About a year and half ago, a friend invited me to a church. A man named Gene Bacon showed video clips from Todd Bentley and Rick Joyner revivals. People were acting like animals and shaking violently to a very eerie drum beat. I was very disturbed by these videos.

    Over the next several weeks I researched and researched this bizarre phenomenon. I connected the dots back to the Toronto blessing. I read testimonies about people leaving Toronto and falling into homosexuality and whoredom. I watched videos of people shaking, acting like animals, people were crawling on all fours with collars around their neck. These people were being drug by chains like dogs. I was freaked out.

    A few short weeks later, I was sitting in my church. The pastor was falling over. He could barely speak, and was slurring his words horribly. A couple of ladies came to the front of the church and spoke about gold dust falling all over them at breakfast that morning. Another lady came to the front of the church and asked everyone to join hands and repent for blocking the supernatural. She did not say “the Holy Spirit” she said “the supernatural” She proceeded to ask for gold dust. I started to feel sick and I knew all of the sudden that what was going on was not God. I went home and cried and cried for days over the horrifying knowledge I had gained.

    I linked the gold dust to Bethel California. My church had been studying Bill Johnston’s curriculum from his School of Supernatural Ministries. Bill Johnston was directly connected to Toronto. Also, Mike Bickle is very much connected to this counterfeit movement. I would encourage you to investigate Mike’s connection to Rick Joyner and Bill Johnston. Check out the Kansas City Coalition of Prophets. It will soon all make sense to you. I will never go to IHOP again!!!! If you haven’t been there, people walk around in a trance like state to repetitious New Age like music.

    When I discovered what I know now, I felt so alone. I was rejected by pretty much every so called Christian I knew. I found a great book called “The Kundalini Warning” by Andrew Strom, which helped shed some light on what is going on in the counterfeit church. It was nice to know that their are people out there who recognize what is going on.

    A few short weeks later, I was visiting a relative, who was watching SBN. She was watching a show called Frances and Friends, which I had never heard of. People were calling in and discussing bizarre wicked practices in the church.

    2 Timothy 3:13 states,
    “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”

    Be very careful!!!! God does indeed move. But Christians must recognize what is God and what is not.

  139. Amen. I am a Canadian who saw John Wimber’s Vineyard move into Canada from California. It was the goofiest thing ever. They worked at being not “religious”. O the things I witnessed!!!
    I watched from the sidelines for some years hoping it would turn into something worthwhile.
    One time I drove into Toronto to check them out when throngs of people were flying in to experience the “miracles”. One American couple I spoke to were Baptists from Minnesota. In their home church they never saw miracles, so they came with stars in their eyes. They thought is was marvellous, I saw the same thing and I thought it was a horrific travesty of laying empty hands on empty heads.

    Much earlier there was great concern in California that the Vineyard was not able to train people fast enough to be mature Pastors. Maturity takes time. So by default, youths were left in charge, lusting for the ever more spectacular……
    Tom Plumb
    Alberta Canada

  140. Annuk:

    What is going on here?

    I post a reply, it is up for a day or two and then it disappears for a week?

    Now it is back up? Weird? Was there some tech error?

    I thought my posts were being censored? I thought they were removed.

    I apologize.I over reacted. Maybe I don’t understand the workings of a website like this?

    Anyways….I take back what I wrote under my Bond insignia. I really thought I was being censored and I screamed “hypocrisy”.

    Anyways….feel free to remove my Nov. 20th comment. I am wrong. You are not being hypocritical if you allow honest debate and comments.

    I really don’t know how to respond to the alienation you testify of at IHOP?

    If I had not experienced my own abuse (twice) from the IHOP staff, I would be prone to really debate you but I can’t cuz I believe there is validity in your statement and I have no confidence (NONE) in Mike Bickle’s administration. Zippo.

  141. Dawn Worley:

    Go to youtube and type in “Kundalini spirit”. You will find Andrew Strorm teach you about exactly what demonic door has been opened by Bill Johnson and others. He has researched this out very well. He is Pentecostal and is a believer in the gifts but condemns this demonic revival spirit among Bill Johnson and others.

    Want pure demonic manifestation on video thru a Christian? No problem. Type in “Rick Joyner Circus” on youtube. Click on the video and slide the time bar over to 2 minutes and hang on. You will witness a powerful surge of evil penetrate the entire atmosphere as the ignorant sheeples start jumpin around and dancing like spastic monkeys to this screaming yelling voodoo chant from a women on stage with beating drums. Yep, right smack dab on stage at Rick Joyner’s conference.

    The smell of stench is enough to gag and puke a herd of billy goats.

  142. David, I didn’t delete anything. No… ATT did that for me…sorry about the misunderstanding.

    What happened with the staff event you spoke of? If you don’t want to share, that’s fine. I ask because a friend went thru some ugly stuff before finally leaving.

  143. I posted these events on Truthspeakers website.back in 2009 or 2010?

    1.) My immediate (within 2 hours) termination of acceptance by IHOP to matriculate in the Fall of 2009. I had emailed Dean Ditto a list of “prophetic words” claimed by Mike Bickle that Bob Jones had spoken. I believe there were 5 or 6? All I asked was whether the staff at IHOP still embraced these words as prophetic and if they still recognized Bob Jones as a “true” prophet? This was all I asked. I received an email from a women named Elizabeth, who titled herself as Dean of Admissions within 2 hours of this email and she informed me my acceptance to IHOP had been terminated.

    2.) In 2004, I was sending IHOP monthly donations and I went to my account with IHOP online to find no finances were listed for my giving. It was getting close for me to file taxes. After months of calling by phone and sending emails, I got nowhere. Mostly students telling me they would get back with me. Never happened. I got angry at the inability to resolve the matter. One night I fired off an email to 6 people that appeared to have high positions at IHOP and inquired to why no answer was forth coming and would someone with authority investigate? My inquiry was blunt. Their lack of responsibility was unacceptable. One week later I received a check in the mail for $1,400.

    I never asked for my money back. Only an accurate accounting of my giving. I have no idea where they got the $1,400 sum? However, their attitude was obvious.

  144. I’m curious as to why exactly your $$$ was refunded. And this despite whether the amount refunded to you was or was not a correct amount.

    You had checked your amount of previous donations online before, right? Why would they suddenly purge your history of giving from their system? Interesting.

    More interesting than that is that only after you’d contacted numerous IHOP staff high up on their totempole, did you suddenly receive your (hopefully correct amount of previous donations) in the mail. Their way of saying, “Now you have no need to remember us, think about us or say anything about us to anyone.” (And that includes the IRS…..) Nes pas?

    I always get feedback from interns at IHOP telling me ALL about how Mike lives on a shoestring, drives a cheap car etc. etc. But I’ve always asked them whose names are on all the papers of who OWNS all the properties, books, earned royalties and, of course, IHOP itself. Beyond that, there’s IHOPs all over the U.S. And in various places globally. How much of a percentage do THEY send in to the IHOP ‘home office’ in KC?

    Just a few thoughts here….

  145. Actually IHOP had never credited my account with any giving. When I inquired and got abrupt about it they just refunded some amount they came up with? After some 3 months of inquiry my patience was gone. In my opinion their attitude was “here, take your money and shutup”. If I ever talk to Mike Bickle again I will address this issue with him but I haven’t spoken to him since 2002.

    I am not aware of any financial abuses at IHOP?

    Bickle does not focus on seed faith,100 fold or money for miracles like the Richard Roberts and Marilyn Hickey’s. He is not of the WOF cloth I came from.

    My guess is all the properties are in his name, likely thru a LLC?

    All the ministers I know receive all the royalties from their books, tapes, cd’s ..etc. Jimmy Swaggart does and so did Kenneth Hagin.

    Tuition likely pays for salaries to instructors, food, energy bills, repairs and improvements?

    I believe all education facilities work on a similar bases.

    I have no problem with ministries owning a resort home for rest & vacation, or Vehicles for transportation or a Pastor who lives in a secured area, which usually is expensive. Can you imagine Benny Hinn living in your neighborhood? People would be banging on his door at all hours of the night.

    Do you believe there is financial abuse at IHOP?

    Do you believe Mike lives an opulent lifestyle?

    Mike just doesn’t seem to be a material guy? Am I missing something?

    Do you believe the properties should be in some other legal entity name?

    How pervasive is the controlism abuse among young students?

    Are they being over charged financially?

    Does anyone ever consider putting a handful of Valium in Lou Engle’s drink before he speaks?

  146. Lots of questions, but I’ll give it my best shot in trying to answer them. Deal?

    In your comment, you initially said that after you had asked IHOP about your record of giving, you received a reply from them indicating that they had no such record of giving (under your name) as even being listed. So then, after (your) becoming “abrupt” with them (3 months later,,,) they refunded some ($) in an amount that THEY came up with..

    [WHY would someone/ANYONE send someone money when the person sending the money showed NO record of their ever having contributed?!!?]

    Let me say here that MANY profit and especially NON-profit organizations not only keep a very accurate (as well as detailed) record/description of where every single dime IS, but also if the $$$ is still on-hand, and/or if not, then for what purpose it WAS USED.

    NOTE: Your very first statement, “…IHOP had never credited my account with any giving”, assuming this is true, is grounds alone (or should I say, “an invitation”) for the IRS to make a note of IHOP/KC etc., load up the IRS shovels, and begin their ever-so-enjoyable digging process starting right there in KC.

    I will address the rest of what you wrote later on today, but right now I have something (yes, related to this message), which takes major precedence.


  147. I do not attend IHOP as I live in Australia, but from Mike’s teaching on the Song of Solomon my relationship with The Lord is closer than it has ever been, I am a mature Christian and always check the Scripture references when I listen or read a teaching even in my home church. I understand we must be careful when listening to ANY teaching because NO ONE has all the truth. As for Bob Jones and Paul Cain I am so glad that Jesus came to forgive and to restore maybe we should have the same attitude as He did when He said He who is without sin cast the first stone.

  148. Rhonda,
    The problem with the teachings you’re talking about is that there’s a MIX many times where he’ll mix some bad in with the good. That’s great that you’re checking everything you hear. But you say NO ONE has all the truth. Rhonda, YOU have The Truth every time you open God’s Word! THAT is why the Bereans went and checked everything they heard against it.
    Yes, Jesus paid a huge price for the forgiveness He gave for Bob Jones and Paul Cain (and let’s throw in Jim Bakker!) — and IF they have repented (or turned from their sin) , that’s great. The sad thing is that TEACHERS receive a stricter judgement – James 3:1.

    Rhonda, no one is casting stones here. This entire blog is to serve as a WARNING to believers to BEWARE of false teachers – because their lessons are the same thing as poison. Did you know that arsenic is a deadly poison but is easily masked with a sweet, sweet taste? The same can be said about false teachings. They go down so smoothly but are deadly once consumed.

  149. As a side note: I’m dear, dear friends with a sister in Christ that some of you know: Truthspeaker .
    Please pray about giving her any monetary support you can. She and her husband are currently in very dire need as they have lost everything they have. (It’s a long story, and I’ll let her be the one to share it eventually.)
    She will not ask, but I’m asking for her.
    Please send any help you can to this address:
    • Joanne Panettieri
    • c/o 472 8th Ave.
    • Troy, NY 11281

    James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

  150. Annuk:

    You have not replied to my questions from Dec. 10th.

    My guess is you do not have answers.

    You make allegations but you have no ammo. You’d make a lousy lawyer. You are fired!

    I am not against you nor do I support you. This is how the court of law works in my profession.

    You and false speaker (lying truth speaker) run your mouths on subjects you cannot sustain.

    Women? Maybe you should remain quiet?

    I know IHOP has issues.We have established this? But you have issues? Maybe we should start a website on your issues hey?

    Seriously, maybe I should start a website attacking you?

    Bet you’d shut your mouth then?

    I know I wouldn’t want someone attacking me n the internet?

    Mike has issues. God is bigger than you Jezebel.I am glad I am not standing before the Judgment Seat and being you?You will not like what you hear.

    Grow up. For all the problems at IHOP I plan on being there next year.

    I may very well be on staff? Will there be problems? You bet? Especially if I am there. I will kick some peoples ass!

    God doesn’t need you Annuk nor me. This is where you and I differ.

  151. I thought I’d replied to your December comment. My bad.

    I’m not Jezebel, you’ve got some anger issues, and IHOP is still a cult – which makes Mike Bickle a cult leader.

    Sorry, but IHOP is hand-in-hand with NAR and NAR is hand-in-hand with Latter rain.

    Can bitter and sweet water come out of the same opening?

  152. Wow!! This is such an angry comment…’kick some a__? What the heck goes on here??
    I appreciate annunk, it’s about time somebody stood for truth

  153. I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere in the IHOP theology a teaching exists giving them permission (for IHOPpers) to act like the world at different times, calling it ‘righteousness indignation’. With IHOP, anything is possible.

  154. Annuk:

    I love you but I’d would stop attacking Mike. I see no improper financial issues at IHOP. Yes…there are issues. I know. Immaturity mostly. Some goofy beliefs too.

    I have stopped attacking all the prosperity perverts on Christian TV. It is hard. I know but I just decided to shut up and let God deal with them.

    I can’t believe He allows the rot and filth being taught on prosperity? Money for miracles?

    It is embarrassing to see it. It makes me sick.

    On the grand scale, Mike is not even close to all the mislead and deceptive people in the world who teach, preach & lay hands on others in “Jesus Name”.

    Scary ain’t it? Annuk. There is some really bad stuff out there and IHOP is not even close to
    the level of stupidity and deception of other groups.

    I know my comment was hard to hear but seriously. Let God handle Mike. Put your hand to something positive and useful. I know I am trying too. I repent for all my comments on other ministers and decided to let God judge them all. Trust me. This will be very difficult for me because the WOF is where I started 25 years ago. I am outraged at the misleading teaching and false lying prophets and phony prophesies. It upsets me that this is where I got my initial teachings. Like you, I wanted to start a website, write books & go on the public circuit condemning these people.

    I think I am finally….(hopefully) getting over it all.

    I got to get ready cuz Jesus is comin soon and I have a lot to learn and a lot of growing up to do.

    My last comment. Be blessed!


  155. Aloha. My husband and I have just started reading “After God’s Own Heart”, so I thought I’d look up Mike Bickle and . . . I found this.
    Please advise whether or not you think this is a good teaching.

  156. If you’re reading the book that has been written by Mike Bickle then yes, he has some good things to say. There’s one problem however. Mike bases his teachings upon NAR which is then connected with the Latter rain teachings. The latter rain is then connected with the Toronto Blessing. All of this is filled with error as it lacks biblical basis.

    Mike Bickle started his entire ministry based upon “prophetic words” he received from Paul Cain (who was ousted for his homosexual no-no’s) as well as his numerous trips to heaven and his “one-on-one sessions” sitting and taking face to face with God….

    So the bottom line is this: keep all this in mind when you’re reading his material and be like a Berean and double check all you read against God’s word. Because Mike Bickel has based his ministry upon error.. Actually, upon many errors.

  157. I will definitely quit posting anything when the Lord tells me to do so. To date however, he has told me to keep going. I know that because of these posts three people that have decided not to return. I consider that a victory for the Lord. But thank you for sharing your thoughts.

  158. Great post and I believe it is not gossip or malicious. What bothers me is that people ARE fallible. We grow and progress. Mike Bickle is trying his best to pursue the truth, mistakes WILL be made and he is not responsible for the sins of the congregation. Many people now days would be quick to judge the children of Israel when they were worshiping Baal. That spirit was there when moses climbed the mountain…….it didn’t just appear. Does that make Moses a false leader. No way. I am geographically very far away from Kansas city, but I so value the GREAT teaching that this place puts out. Yes it is not all encompassing, meaning that is covers every nuance of our great King. But it is accurate and Biblical. I agree with a couple of comments that say that the Word is the most important to Godly living. May the Lord lead IHOP to great studies of the Word…..

  159. The Israelites had already ‘gone back to Egypt’ (in their hearts) when they asked Aaron to make the gold calf for them to worship. They wanted something they could actually see. Interesting you’d make that anology as hard core IHOP devotees have looked to Mike Bickle in much the same way.

    Agreed: Mike Bickle started out with good intentions. He is a VERY charismatic speaker/preacher/teacher. On that note, however, when he began gathering ‘followers’ of his own, his good intentions veered way off-track. Thus the false teachings (such as contemplative prayer). You’re saying the false teacher isn’t accountable for his followers devotion? What scripture are you using as back-up for that?

    Side notes:

    James 3:11 asks a great question. CAN bitter and sweet water flow from the same spring?

    James 3:1 also discusses why not many should desire to become teachers..

    Bottom line is this: IHOP is NOT where I would advise ANY parent to send their child. In addition to that, IHOPU is NOT an accredited university. NO degree follows the IHOP graduate. That is, however, a different thread.

  160. Somedays I drive around town and somebody cuts me off and I finger them. Am I fit for hades then. That is pretty bitter water. All I am saying is that people will make lots of mistakes in interpretation and focus too much passion on one ideology or another but as more meat is eaten then we all look back at the error of our ways. Lol. Intern. Far from it. All I am saying is that there is so much incorrect teaching everywhere and from what I’ve heard I appreciate what this part of the body does. All the members working together. I am not approving of errors but praising the successes and as I tske this teaching and many others to the feet of him
    He will instruct all things to his disciples while we are alone. 🙂 you have taken this to his heart. Great. I am a very mature and strong believer that says wow they give some great teaching. I do know of an individual that goes to Kansas from time to time and is obsessed. I think it’s weird. That does not affect me. The Lord will bring her into wholeness in his time. That his glory will shine in her in her season. I am currently praying for a revelation to the church to get into the word as much as ihop is in to prayer. Unless we read the word our prayers are askew. That is probably the only beef I have with ihop.

  161. I also know Mike Bickle, and who ever this knuckle head is I would love to meet him. My father bought the building of the church in Rosebud MO. Mike did not ATTEMPT to build a church there, the church was there. Mike was a great pastor and leader, and served his season and God moved him on to bigger and better!! The church continued after Mike left and did many great works.
    I think I know who this person is, and this all sour grapes over hurt feelings.

  162. God told you to keep writing your gnostic women whore opinions on Miki Bickle?

    Hahahahaha …next you’ll be tellin me your Cindy Jacobs the Jezebel whore is your mentor?


    Annuk the whore extraordinaire whore Jezebel

  163. Dear “Whore it is”…
    To answer your questions; I am obedient to the Lord. I see that you, however, are not speaking, nor walking in love. Your words have become a noisy gong. i.e. loud and useless.
    I don’t even know who “Cindy Jacobs” is.

    I forgive you, whoever you are – and I’m praying for you.

  164. Judas Iscariot also lived with Jesus for a period of time! Obviously he did not perceive the Lord’s ministry as a genuine move of God either, like you [ author annunk] have stated about IHOP!

  165. I was at IHOP for 8 days attending lectures and going to the Prayer Room multiple times and found them refreshing and edifying. In my 40 years as a believer, I witnesed people dropped out from churches, got divorced, leaders committed sexual sin, husbands beat their wives as Christians, got depressed, got really disappointed with the church, etc…

    These things happened in almost every church on the face of the earth. I have been working in the ministry for 40 years since 20 years of age and seen a lot of wounded soldiers in some of the best churches. The prayer in IHOP is not the problem. For those who got hurt and disappointed at IHOP it is not because they were led into something dark and cultish. The process at IHOP is not perfect and water proof but it is a tool to help people to get close to God. People can’t resolve their personal issues for many reasons and much prayer is not one of them.

    In the Book of Acts it was common practice for early disciples to gather together to pray as a body in houses daily. In fact they prayed loudly as a group. I am sure there were times they prayed in the closet alone. What IHOP does is no different from the early church. Some times you pray alone and other times you pray as a group. Paul ask us to give a song, sing a psalm, give a prophecy when we gather together. By Paul standard, what is happening in most churches in the West must be so far off the chart of God’s way of doing things. Are we all in error then?

    Most churches in the West don’t even have a prayer meeting today. IHOP indeed is a breath of fresh air in this dry and thirsty land. My Father’s house is called the house of prayer for many nations. It is a prayer house, not a prayer closet per se.

    David Ong

  166. FYI The “early church” did not practice contemplative prayer. As I am sure you are already aware, contemplative prayer is a New Age practice, and is demonically oriented. It does not belong inside the body of Christ at all.

    So much for that “breath of fresh air”. Do yourself a favor and continue your walk in The Lord, but BE a Berean. Walk the narrow path.

  167. Judas Iscariot was a greedy thief as well as a traitor. His god was money as well as himself. It was only after his betrayal that he felt remorse. You are talking apples and oranges on that one.

    I will never endorse anyone or any group that remotes New Age practices such as contemplative prayer. That would be synonymous with playing with fire…which is what you’re doing if you are practicing that.

  168. While I have my concerns about IHOP and I have past experiences in dealing with a local church connected to them, grace is given in moments of disobedience. I will tell you where I stand: I am not fond of Bickle or IHOP. 2 Timothy 3 really stands as a red flag, in my mind. When I read of various reports of parents being snubbed by their kids, 2 Timothy 3 comes to mind. When I constantly hear of the women in relationships, be they married to Christian men or married to a Pastor, as the ones becoming obsessed with Bickle and IHOP, I am reminded of 2 Timothy 3. When I hear of people becoming obsessed with “new teachings”, I would assume they are always learning and never coming to the truth- once again, reminded of 2 Timothy 3. One of those women, that I know, once said to me “f*** Paul”, because I was challenging her with the NT and what Paul stated. Needless to say, that was an eye-opener.

    I have read somewhere, perhaps in these comments, that Bickle intends to align himself with Jihadist. I don’t know if that’s true, however, there should not be a pro-Islamic book on a supposedly Christian book-store’s website.


    Read the Product Description: it is clearly Islamic.

    From my experiences, most of the women I have encountered in these new-age movements have no strong foundation in their knowledge of scripture. Mostly, they have been to churches in the past where they were touched by the Spirit/Slain/Holy Laughter, etc. I can’t help but conclude that they are substituting a “feeling” for Jesus. When I became aware of Christ, I got knocked down, chastised, and I wept for quite some time. I didn’t shout. I didn’t have uncontrollable laughter. It hurt- but it felt like a huge burden was lifted off of my chest.

    But, annunk, let it go. Scripture tells us not to be too concerned with false teachers, that they will be dealt with. Please don’t misunderstand me, we are warned of them; however, if people fall for false teachings because they don’t spend personal time studying their Bible (and I mean personal, not dictated by an outside reading regiment), that’s on them. Their first flaw was in not studying scripture, their second flaw is in ignoring 1 John 2:27 and if they are misled, it is their fault because of those first two flaws. The mere fact that you challenged people to find scriptural evidence to their claims and they did not do so, pretty much concludes this paragraph and it’s point/intention. They are merely repeating to you what they have been told to say.

    Pretty simple, actually, Romans 11:32.

    We all have been bound/imprisoned/cosigned (whatever translation you prefer) to our own sins and disobedience, so that He can have mercy on us. This verse can be confusing because if God imprisons us to our sins, it’s easy to assume God wants us to sin and is responsible for it. I’m not saying that. It’s our sins, therefore, our blame- not His.

    Let it go, annunk. I believe the scriptural basis from which you find your conclusions are meant for you. Those same conclusions have also been determined, by myself and my own reading of Scripture. The point is simple: if people would read their Bibles, the likes of false teachers and false prophets would have no means in which to blind and confuse people. It’s the disobedience toward God and not reading scripture that puts them in that position to begin with. Furthermore, Romans 11:32.

    I have come to one simple conclusion: one could read every single book in a Christian bookstore, never read a Bible, and they know nothing. I think a lot of Christians read the words of mere men, those books on those shelves, and use it as a substitute for discerning scripture. We don’t need more men and women to write books about the Bible, I think we need to return to the Bible itself.

    Based on the comments I have read and the replies you have given, you have come across as being more mature than a lot of those who challenged you. I am only telling you to let it go because I didn’t, and it hurt me. Give them grace, just as He gives it to you. It’s pointless to contend with people over scripture. If they read it, let the Spirit do the rest. I simply think the business-side of Christianity is destroying the need for personal engagement with scripture and the need for a “prayer-closet”. However, you do what you believe God is directing you to do. I think when people are deceived, they tend to blame the deceiver as opposed to taking responsibility for their own gullibility. In which case, people should be thankful they know better and be grateful for God’s chastisement. I know we aren’t to cause our brothers and sisters to stumble, however, if they are insistent on falling down, we can’t permit them to grab a hold of us and take the fall with them. We can offer a hand, and lift them back up. We live in a world where gullibility is applauded: “ignorance is bliss”, etc. Even when people say, “I can’t change the world, I can only change myself”, they are being susceptible to gullibility. I can’t change myself, let alone the world. But love can, and God is love. I will simple end by resounding 2 Timothy 3: if people are always learning and never coming to the truth, it’s probably due to such men as these proclaiming that God is doing something new, teaching something new, etc. The problem is simple: once the new is understood, the newer new will become the new new. If you get my point- always learning, because they are always being taught “new” things.

    Take care.

  169. There is another site, carm.org, in which Bickle supposedly says, “5. “I (Mike Bickle) stood there and I was at the Lord’s left hand, and it was not a dream–this was as real as life here and like I said, I don’t know that realm…”

    Perhaps Bickle should remind himself of the Sheep and the Goats parable. If I had a dream, that I thought was from God, and I was on the Lord’s left hand- I wouldn’t be overly conceited about it. Even more, he says it’s not a dream. Yet, he supposes being on the Lord’s left hand means anything more than that he is a goat.

  170. I was a member of Calvert chapel years ago. My love for the lord was so misunderstood by the some of the people who have attended this church. After six months I realized that I had to leave this church because of the legalism and unbelief. It was hard because I had made many good friends. Mike bickle was very key in helping find freedom and joy in my relationship with God again.

  171. Happy for you on your close feeling with God again. Sadly, however, both Calvary Chapel and Mike Bickel rely on New Age contemplative prayer as part of their pathway (i.e. “Growing in the prophetic”) So it’s six of one and a half-dozen of the other. (50-50)
    Do yourself a favor and begin doublechecking everything that you are taught, whether it is at IHOP or any other place, against God’s word. Be like a Berean (Gal. 1:8) and know whether you’re hearing something inspired by the Hotly Spirit or by some other spirit. Satan is able to do some very tricky twisting of God’s word… while using those known as Christians to do it for him…

  172. I could make this long…sorry Mike…but I really don’t have the time to do you the justice you deserve in this cesspool of filth on this page; that will be judged for its words against you. I know that you are born again, and for someone to say otherwise, is something God will deal with in his time. As for your work at IHOP. there are no soothsayers, no cronies, only bitter people on this internet; that obviously have created a vendetta in life against you. Maybe they didn’t get ‘the promotion”? but more important is this: I had three endangered children that were basically ‘gone’, I am going to make this really short: they were done over, gone. they loved the world they didn’t care about God, even though I raised them to.. they were endangered, one had become very depressed, and the others…well, I will not say. Somehow, I managed to get them from Md. to KC for an internship……. and every single one of them came back a totally different human being. totally in love with Jesus, full of grace, respect for there parents, and have been hard working productive citizens ever since and gone hard after college , and good things in God and enjoyed also the rest that comes with depending heavily on the grace of the cross that they now love and UNDERSTAND. can’t argue with FRUIT people. three teenagers…not one …ALL forever changed by their brief experience at IHOP. I resent the ‘fresh meat”; comments, the ‘preying on the young and naïve’ comments….how about Mike CARES about the Young and how about he goes after the young becasue they are the future of this sick country that the devil is trying to tote off before our eyes??? Its 3 and 4 years later now, and my kids have been forever redirected…not into ‘works based religion’ that has deceived, but into the most healthy experience with Jesus I could have ever ever hoped for. the author on this page…is a bitter man, whose kids didn’t like the place or maybe he neglected them when he shouldn’t have…and now he is spending his life spreading garbage that is blasphemous all over the country, …who knows. I know that… I know…. that IHIOP is one of the best things that ever happened to my family and this country and their doctrine is sound and Biblical, and it is not a sin to hope for a miracle and it is not a sin to worship God a lot…check your local Martha and Mary story sir. You are really a sad soul., I will pray for you. love Lynn

  173. Lynn, great hearing your kids made it out strong. So…..
    Take a deep breath and re-read the blog, please.

    This is actually from another post and though you believe I’m a hateful person, you’ve got it backwards. MY PLUG is to warn others re: keeping their kids away from contemplative (new age) prayer.

    I know parents whose kids went to IHOP and then cut off 100% of communication with the parents and family for YEARS before leaving IHOP and then finally getting in touch again with sad stories to follow. Admissions manipulations over and over again by various leaders.

    Lynn, believe what you may. I’ve been doing this blog out of obedience to The Lord. And you’re right. YES. I will one day stand before Him and say I did what He told me to do. Not out of bitterness, Lynn. But out of love. Love for Him.
    I would, after all, have listened if someone had spoken up and I’d heard about the mysticism there — that is, before my child went. That alone would have caused me to help direct my child to another place/program and prevented YEARS of heartache.

    I hope your kids graduated from accredited universities instead of unaccredited IHOP. That’s a whole different thread.

    Blessings, Lynn.

  174. Michael you stated “I have read somewhere, perhaps in these comments, that Bickle intends to align himself with Jihadist”.


    Exactly how stupid are you?

    I’d be embarrassed to even mention it as a rumor, let alone put it on the internet. I don’t care where you heard it?

  175. Perhaps what we’re seeing here is more common than we realize. Where is the perfect Christian expression on this Earth? Which church or Christian community of any kind doesn’t have its casualties alongside its wonderful testimonies of fruit and blessing? Our God is the author of all the good in this world and He is sovereign to use any expression of His word to accomplish His purposes.

    As the rain and the snow
    come down from heaven,
    and do not return to it
    without watering the earth
    and making it bud and flourish,
    so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
    so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
    It will not return to me empty,
    but will accomplish what I desire
    and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. [Isaiah 55:10-11]

    It is true we are responsible to interact with and to judge doctrine, as best we can. I have yet to hear any teacher in the Body of Christ whose entire teaching I could trust, apart from the fundamental truths which we all subscribe to. In my 35 years as a believer I have heard and seen both wonderful and horrendous results from the numerous revivals, renewals and movements which have captured public attention and generated exactly the kind of controversy delineated in this thread. In fact, history is replete with controversy over dramatic developments in Christian communities. In every one, hearts were tested, and purified…those who truly knew and loved Jesus.

    I, myself, have been profoundly blessed and also deeply wounded in the context of what has been called the “Toronto Blessing”. Do I count myself competent to judge everything that has taken place among the millions who were affected by that movement all over the world? Do you? How many people have you interviewed in your attempt to judge what the Lord may or not have done through their experiences? I have some opinions and a working theology on any number of movements, yet I find that good and bad things happen in all of them. God is sovereign.

    Here in Israel we are increasingly challenged to face the reality of paradox; how that two seemingly irreconcilable positions or claims can exist simultaneously and contain truth. This seems virtually essential to the nature of things in this fallen world. For sure, IHOP fits the category of paradox for me, as one who has both participated in and been disillusioned with the 24/7 movement. Our life in the Lord is an amazing journey mediated by Him in perfect wisdom according to our needs and our personal choices. There are incontrovertible promises for those whose hearts are for Him; (“all things work together for good…”). Our own individual “Pilgrim’s Progress” will take us through many challenging pathways for discernment and growth.

    I’m trying to be more circumspect with regard to judging movements and influential teachers, themselves. It seems to me more important to realize that believers presently under their influence are each on an individually tailored journey on which their hearts are being tested. A wonderful promise is contained in Yeshua’s words, “Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.” [John 7:17] It seems reasonable to draw from these words the principle that my desire to do God’s will forms the ground for receiving and understanding good and true doctrine, which will engender real growth and sanctification in my life. In the end, the true gold in each of us will reflect the image of Jesus, as we seek faithfully to know and follow Him on the unique journey He has mapped out for us.

  176. David, see 1 Cor. 9:24-27
    I pray that God will help you to run this race and stay on the path that Hr chooses for you. I have put my blog up with great humility. Not for my own self but to help protect others from going astray. Blessings to you, David.

  177. All this crazyness is why I am now finding Christ in the Ancient Eastern Orthodox Christian church that has been established from the beginning. Without any ties to the historical church their is a comedy of errors. I had a friend completely bottom out after attending IHOP because he emotionally read into a verse and made that emotional experience & verse his God. Jesus is God, not a man. He will have mercy.

  178. Lastly, the New Apostolic Reformation movement is trying to return to the early church. However, the early Church never operated with self-appointed offices of the apostles and prophets. Their were bishops, deacons, and priests. It was liturgical, mystical, sacramental, and beautiful. Anyone interested in getting to know the true first century church, it’s alive today. I have found it very healing after submitting myself to bad teaching like Mike and the NAR. http://www.gettoknowtheoriginal.net/

  179. I’m approving this but with caution. I need to read into what you are talking about since this has not been my main focus within these recent last years. But don’t worry I’ll get back with you.

  180. God bless you. Thanks for approving my comment. I agree to test everything like Paul said. With that said, all of the original apostolic fathers writings are available to read, so you can check it out on your own (Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna) all disciples by original apostles. You can read some of their quotes here if you’re interested. To me it seems that they were more focused on communion through the Eucharist, than hyper-prophecies, tongues, and visions about everything. The Lord is mericiful. http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/a5.html

  181. For the record-I want you to know that I believe the. Catholic faith is off base. Way off base. Anything beyond “The Bible” is false teaching.

  182. Your choice of being part of an Orthodox church is your own. Please remember, however, that knowing all the right things and right ways to worship mean absolutely zero to Christ if you dont personally KNOW Him. (Just a reminder.)

  183. I couldn’t agree more. Just because one is part of a historical church doesn’t mean anything regarding one’s Salvation. Personally knowing him is most important (people know him in all branches and streams). I do personally know him. Have for 5 years. He changed my entire life. I feel like I’m getting to know him more intimately now by learning about the early church fathers. Yes, I do agree things are way off with Catholic teaching. Orthodoxy isn’t catholic. And as for the Bible you worship, the Greek Orthodox church is the one that should be thanked for giving all the protestants & roman catholics a bible to read. Along with Martin Luther of course who rescued it from the corruption of the Vatican and gave us Solo Scriptura. But even how positive Solo Scriptura is, this way of approaching God also leads to cults, weird interpretations, extrapolated charismatic words that are false, and other negative expressions in the protestant faith… as you’ve seen. Also, this may be hard for you to realize, but Jesus is more than the Bible… he transcends it. It is truly is his word revealed to mankind and complete. But Jesus is Lord, King, but does transcend all of our words. He won’t come back as a big book. He’s coming back as a Man, a God, our King. As Prophet Isaiah said, “My words are higher than your words, my thoughts are higher than your thoughts.” I love Jesus more now than ever. 🙂 Prayers for you on your journey too.

  184. Also you said “knowing all the right things and right ways to worship him mean zero to Christ.” Do you think it really means nothing to Christ to worship him correctly? If you were the creator of the Universe, wouldn’t you want people to worship you in a correct way? Do you think IHOP and the NAR movement are worshiping him the right way? Do you think it really matters? You should look up Mt. Athos. they’ve had 24/7 prayer going on for over 1,000 years (non-stop). Some of these monks never even sleep because they prayer all the time. These are the prayer warriors of the world. IHOP thinks it’s great because it has prayer going on since 99, but something going on 1,000 years unbroken seems more reliable to me. We’ll see how long IHOP lasts and what was truly built on the Lord.

  185. I am so blessed to see your eyes open, I know many rooted believers who worship and idolize the fallacy of IHOP. My righteous anger will be judged. I have separated myself from them who’s minds have been seared. My faith is in the Lord, if HE hasn’t spoken it, I’ll keep waiting to hear. My belief is the flesh of man (the first nature) must.. die out so it may be sanctified by HIS word. The natural man promotes itself on emotions and earthly knowledge, and imaginations from below. The new wine can not be held in old wine skin. Sadly we try to mix the old with the new, but he who is truly born again must become new. Many have grown tired of waiting, but HE tarrys for we have not all come to this understanding of walking in the Spirit, blood and flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom. We confess to be rightous yet still walk in our first nature. Lord help us in our unbelief , grant us mercy and grace to be partakers of the Kingdom. Thank you for teaching us and revealing your Word which sustains us.

  186. The interpretation of Matthew 6 regarding proper approaches to prayer that the original writer referenced, and I assume you agree with since you appeared to defend it above, is incorrect. Under this interpretation, we would be forbade from praying in church or holding prayer meetings with fellow believers in our homes. That’s not exactly well-supported in scripture.

    I’m just curious – how is that contemplative prayer is bad? (Or more ridiculously, how is it comparative to transcendental meditation. That comparison borders paranoia.)
    To contemplate means:
    1. to look at or view with continued attention; observe or study thoughtfully
    2. to consider thoroughly; think fully or deeply about
    3. to have as a purpose; intend.
    4. to have in view as a future event
    (Ref: http://www.dictionary.com)

    Prayer, of course, means to communicate with God.

    So to villain contemplative prayer by comparing it to TM or new age, you are saying that we should not give God continual attention or to engage in purposeful prayer. Where is this supported in scripture? I’ll make it easy: It’s not. In fact, it’s on the verge of violating the first commandment. Not quite there, but close.

    Secondly, it’s offensive to keep viewing those in support of IHOP as, essentially, brain dead Kool-Aid drinkers who can’t establish sound doctrine because they’re being spoon-fed deception. I’m very strict in my interpretation of scripture. In fact, there is little I believe is intended to be interpreted. Rather, I believe in understanding in the context, both directly, and historically, that it was written. There are, at times, clear indications when something is metaphorical or allegorical, and should be interpreted as such. Doing so with all of scripture is unsound – anything can mean whatever you want it to with this approach. The bottom line is, wherever I go, or whomever I am under the leadership of or whom I am being taught by, I will always find teachings I disagree with. It is impossible that any man should be able to acquire the full truth. Only God is capable of that. Do I believe that false teachings should be called out? Of course. Even Peter, who knew Christ personally, had to be corrected at least once. Did that make him a false teacher?

    You want to know what a false teacher looks like? I’ve been around a few. We had a leader of a small church organization who seemed to start off with accurate doctrine, and ended up way out in crazyville, believing in wild interpretations of revelation, that the bride of Christ wasn’t the church, but was Jerusalem (based on the comparison made in Revelation), believed that frogs, locusts, etc. were satanic, and on and on. Eventually, she ended up going to the extremes that only her teachings were correct, forbidding her members to even be prayed for by outsiders, and which her members gladly ate up. Eventually, her fallen ministry crumbled, and rightly so.

    Here’s another example, closer to home. Somehow, a man lured my mentally unstable mother into believing that he was sent to her by God to help her recover from a recent mental breakdown. He would say all the right things (in her eyes) to convince her he was a Godly man. After a very short time, he managed to lure her away from her husband, resulting in a divorce. Slowly, he revealed his true colors, which turned out to be a manipulative, abusive, self-absorbed con artist; a wolf in sheep’s clothing, who has absolutely no belief in God, or any god of any other religion. What’s worse, she still hasn’t let go of him. Maybe she can’t.

    This is what real false teachers look like. Now take a look at your minor nit-picking of IHOP. It pales in comparison, doesn’t it?

    The bottom line is: If you’re not being pulled away from God into sin or wild teachings of an overactive imagination, it’s not really quite as big a deal. It’s important to pursue the truth, and call out false teachings, as I said, but frankly, you don’t need to over-dramatize it.

  187. Laying IHOP aside for the moment, I truly believe the time is dwindling before His return — (though this was the same viewpoint people had back in the 40s when Israel became a nation). My point being, we don’t know for certain when the Lord is returning but we do know that with each day, we grow closer to his return. With that in mind, every effort should be made on everyone’s part to get out there share the gospel. It’s so easy.

    People are starving for something that will fill that empty spot within them. It only takes a smile, hello and how’s your day going? From there the dams begin to empty and the door opens for sharing the Lord. God takes it from there.

  188. Thank you for your copious response. It took me a little bit but yes, I did get through it.

    Since you are obviously at IHOP, then you obviously are practicing contemplative prayer. Please let me know if I’m wrong and you’re not practicing contemplative prayer then the rest of this letter is not necessary.

    I’m really not so much concerned about some of the nitpicky things at IHOP so much as I am about what IHOP has done and breaking families apart. Were you aware of the various families that have been completely torn apart by IHOP? I have been contacted by so many families since 2004, it is just unbelievable.

    But getting back to what you had written about – how can bitter and Sweet water flow from the same spring? How can the love of Jesus Christ and his wonders his blessings and all of the different things that are in the Bible come right out of the same mouth of someone that is teaching contemplative prayer?

    To be honest? I don’t really care if you agree or disagree with me. I would rather that you agreed with me but that’s not the case. Contemplative prayer is the same thing as self hypnosis. That’s what transcendental meditation is. It is self hypnosis.

    In self hypnosis you are virtually opening your mind and emptying it of every single ACTIVE thought. Luke tell us what the demon does when he finds a place clean and swept. He takes in seven others worse than himself. THAT is why I teach against contemplative prayer. There is actually no prayer in it at all! All it is is satisfying the flesh. Oh yeah – it’s also opening yourself up for the worst roller coaster ride of your life.

  189. I believe with all my heart that “church” is being changed to something it has never been before. I believe the days of going into a building for “true church” is coming to its final close. Yes, there’ll still be church services and yes, people (like me) will still “attend” but leaving church at the door is coming to an end. I have church 7 days a week – at the church bldg, at work, at home, at the stores, out walking — you name it- this person is doing the church thing 24/7 😉 and loving it. Come Lord Jesus, come!

  190. I feel deep sorrow for those who chose to follow him. For many of those followers, he is borderline worshiped. Very sad to know the damage IHOP has done to so many families.

  191. I have never heard a bunch of worthless slaps in my life.
    Homeless turds . Seriously, this is laughable!
    Complete idiots on your website Jezebel, Annuk the whore.
    Congratulations moron. You are the dish

  192. David, the only reason I permitted your post (and not others) is because yours left out the profanity… It was, however, borderline.

    Please be advised that future posts from you must address something on this site in-particular. This would be since we now know you’ve given it your thumbs down. OK?

    Also, is this how all of the kids in your group talk? It isn’t very Christlike.

  193. i enjoyed the article. Don’t even remember now why I googled Mike Bickle. Read a few of the comments. To the author of the post- great job ! I didn’t detect any devisiveness at all – actually a love for the brethren – including the folks at IHOP. That being said- I cannot understand what would keep people clinging to error, groups for so long. I guess I feel like that is why the baptism of the Holy Spirit is so important – gives me a keener discernment of spirits- sometimes I hear something & I don’t detect anything wrong, per se, but something isn’t sitting right. On other occasions, I can bump into a complete stranger & recognize the Holy Spirit instantly & experience koinoneia.

    There are many doctrines & traditions accepted by mainstream Christianity that I don’t agree with or see eye to eye. I can’t stand to hear a Christian call Passover, Unleavened Bread & Firstfruits – Easter. Makes me sick. I never passively accept anyone’s opinion. I don’t care who they are. There are many, many who were, are in error. But after a commitment to daily reading the Word of God, & praying that the Holy Spirit will give me understanding- I find He certainly will.
    I see this as a trend that is increasing- the Great Apostasia prophesied by Jesus Himself. I am grateful again for your post & warning to believers. I find it very honorable you devote your time to do so.

  194. Jesus too, was called a “false prophet,” Jesus’ “movement, the Nazarene’s” as the Pharisees and Sadducee called it was also called a “cult.” The book of Acts speaks of it. Mike’s a Christian, he loves the Lord and wants others to experience the lavished love that Christ has for us. It’s hard for those who can’t open their hearts to truth to understand. If one does not experience prophetic dreams or revelation through prayer and scripture…one thinks that others that actually do have these revelations are false. This is JUST like Satan to tear God’s church apart…I’d rather become more like Jesus each minute, then to waste precious time trying to prove other Christian’s theology wrong. If you don’t like what Mike teaches, move on! Only God can judge Mike’s heart…in the mean time…let us focus on what God reveals to us through scripture, prayer and fasting…not on man. It’s THE church that matters.

  195. Mo,Webster said a cult is a religious group, bound together by their attachment to a person or principle.

    just for a moment let’s pretend Mike Bickle is out of the picture for one reason or another. let’s say car wreck or heart attack or just died in his sleep. Ok so mike is dead. What happens to ihop? Let me guest Allen hood takes over from there! I would be willing to bet that ihop would dissolve rather quickly.

    and let me make just 1 statement here on something else. I hop has been responsible for the breaking up off me multiple families. Let me say that word again, multiple families! We’re talking about young people who has been and -0 to break of all communication with your family members. And why? Because these family members could possibly for tail the growth of their faith.

  196. Now go back and read the entire scripture you’ve pulled apart
    , or rather your used to try and make your point.

    Apple and when mickle goes – he dies – gets really too sick to add much, you will watch IHOP disappear.

    Ol Allen will take the reigns but the place will fall apart into nothing,

  197. This is a totally crazy commentary, full of personal opinion (which is not necessarily truth) and annoyingly meandering. If people spent as much time looking at the log in their own eyes, as they do dissecting Mike Bickle and the IHOP movement, we’d have some incredibly spiritually clean and mature believers in the Christian community. Instead, we have this kind of immensely questionable nonsense going up all over the internet.

  198. As you, not anyone else, but you mature in the Lord, and if you actually will do what the Bereans did, you’ll easily see and hear the error.

    Blessings to you on that.

  199. I think the reason why a lot of people respond to this is not because they do not see the log in their own eye but because we always need to be testing the spirits, we always need to be measuring teaching’s to truth…It’s such a sad thing to watch a brother or sister in Christ come under false teachings and be deceived. So many people just believe what they hear being preached or taught and never make sure it lines up with the word of God. When you have movements like IHOP going on, especially when it seems to be pulling a lot of young people into it, we definitely need Bereans to rise up, we do need to look at it with the magnifying glass of the word of God..God says ‘My people perish for lack of knowledge’
    Lord, help us to always stay in Your truth…..
    In love

  200. It’s not just ihop but it’s also going on in a lot of other places and nobody is double checking what they’re hearing against what is in their Bible. No wonder God warned us that in the final days there would be such deception that if it were possible it would deceive even the very elect, BC there’s a TON of deception going on, and sadly to say, Mike Bickle is helping to promote the deception especially in his teachings on contemplative prayer – and that’s just to name one of them.

  201. all I know is that when I met Mike Bickle in the 90s, I was totally creeped out by him because he kept staring at my boobs. I met Bob Jones, Paul Cain & Bickle through the Vineyard church, and all three of them gave me the creeps, but Bickle couldn’t stop staring at my chest. Bunch of idiots, if you ask me. I don’t believe in prophets any more. I think all of them are on a power trip. But Mike really seemed to like boobs. I wasn’t the only one he did that to.

  202. Mike Bickle was starring at you Katy?


    Get over yourself Katy. Mike Bickle could careless about you and shame on Annunk the witch for posting this comment. Hope you’re ready to answer to Jesus. You are a witch!

  203. Alright, I read all of you article on this and have a few questions, I am just curious and am in no way trying to disrespect you or your beliefs, thank you for you time.

    What Is your definition of the New Age movement,

    What is your definition of contemporary prayer.

    What do you believe about prophecy as far as words of knowledge, etc. etc.

    and one final thing, a person I know that worked at IHOP for ten years said this to me, All of the models all of the special things that we do are for Collectively worshiping God, so all of the special things that they do like, sitting a certain way or breathing a certain way are either singing things or, as my friend says it, the way to get the most amount of people engaged with the lord, and one last thing.

    Financial security and wealthy living are not the goals of a true christian life. The things that we as Christians should truly desire, is complete dependency on God.

    Thank you for your time once more,


  204. Also I am not sure I believe you, But I believe in tests, wether IHOP is one, or this is one, I do not know but either way, I understand where you are coming from.

  205. New Age movement is something that appears to be Christian teaching but is actually satanic in nature. Because it takes “the Cross” and makes it an historical event rather than what it actually is.

    Contemplative prayer is also held up in the new age movement as being very necessary. Necessary towards moving in the direction of God? I don’t think so. Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to control our breathing and get into a state of self hypnosis In order to hear from God. That however, is what is required in order to do contemplative prayer. Google it if you don’t believe me.

    Prophecy? Yes. I strongly believe Gods gifts are still in use today. After all, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. You do have to do one thing though… Consider the source. I sure do not believe profecy is coming out of someone’s mouth if their teachings (such as contemplative prayer) don’t line up with the rest of Gods word. IHOP does encourage contemplative prayer. ALSO I have had MULTIPLE parents contact me over the past 11 years letting me know their son or daughter has cut off ALL communication with them — asking me if I can help.
    IHOP STATES they don’t teach their interns to cut off communication with family at all. Yet it happens. So why is this? This is an unspoken teaching amongst them that they need to stay away from anyone that’s going to get in the way of Mike’s teachings.

    Hope I answered your questions enough for you.

  206. for the lady above (katy)

    Over 60 percent of christian men struggle or have struggled with pornography and things that go with that, so if you meet two guys one of them is likely to have trouble, I do not know if that is an issue with mike, but nobody is perfect, so I would not be suprised. And that cannot be used to identify him as a cult leader, unless he openly encourages it.

  207. Pls note: Annunk was NOT the person who brought this up nor did Annunk link pornographic behavior as even remotely part of IHOP. That is a separate issue altogether.

  208. I have a few more questions,
    a little ways up the list a man said the definition of contemplative prayer, I agree with that definition and I don’t doubt you do as well, but How is meditation on the things of God Demonic? also you talk about it tearing apart families, I am a guy who likes to see numbers for facts people say. So if you have any please share them, You say that it is tearing apart families, Is that in reference to parents and there children, or just parents?

    One last thing, For people that read this, all of it is personal opinion, for instance, IF someone quotes a scripture, they are not quoting the whole bible they are quoting what they consider to be a ‘relevant’ part, what is relevant is there opinion. They are also putting that verse in context with there argument. Which is also there opinion. So read what Annunk says, and go check it out for yourself, be a bearian, (I get what that is but were all christians so why are you labelling or setting apart yourself from “christians” it gave me the impression of a cult at a first glance.) Look up his(I hope annunk is male, and am terribly sorry if that is not the case) scriptures, see if his quotes are used in context, look up the definitions for the words he says, see if the different words mean what he says they do. Just like he warns us to watch for the issues at IHOP watch for the issues in his beliefs. Don’t take what they or he says for granted, because it is possible that either or both are wrong.

    P.S. I believe in what IHOP is doing, it may not be perfect, I dare someone to give me a ministry that was “Perfect”, But they are teaching people to worship God and meditate on his words, and if that is demonic in nature then we as christians, are a doomed species.

  209. Also why do you keep talking about good and bad water from the same spring, is that biblical? Please give a reference. Because if that is truth, I would like to see where it leads, because if you have ever lied, and you have. Then you have had “bitter” water come out of your spring, therefore, according to your logic, everything you have ever said is sinful lies. Now I know you do not believe that but that is where you collide with scriptures, don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Even if Mike B has issues, (which he does,) as apposed to every other human being that has walked the earth save 1, There are things that need to be sifted out of what he says, however condemning all of IHOP is a little far, There are litterally thousands of students, adults, who believe wholeheartedly in it, and you talk about people coming to you with, broken families, loss of children, I am sorry for that. However I see you Intruding your own personal emotions/ agenda/ deep hatred for Mike, I am sorry for that but your anger is not righteous.

    Also what does TM stand for, because I keep seeing it and don’t know what it means.

  210. Meditating upon God’s word does not mean putting your self into a state of self-hypnosis. Putting yourself into a state of self-hypnosis is the same thing as TM which is what is used in eastern religions, and no, they surely do not worship the Christian God who IS God as there is no one but Him.
    THEREFORE anyone practicing contemplative prayer is actually taking part in nothing short of witchcraft. This is due to the fact that they are not praying to the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They are in stead praying to the god of the underworld and which we know to be Satan himself.

      PS. That psalm that says be still and know that I am God… Read the whole thing in context and quit using that as the basis or the OK that we are to go into self-hypnosis.
  211. Can both fresh water and bitter water flow from the same spring?
    James 3:11

    PS. James is one of my favorites. (Just FYI)

    TM is transcendental meditation. It is where you go into a state of SELF-hypnosis. That “self” puts Jesus out of the picture altogether.

    Also Ben, I’ve had multiple families ask little old me about “HOW do I get my kid to talk to me again?! They’ve cut me off completely since joining IHOP.”

    I have personally gone through this, Ben. So this DOES happen and has been happening for years.
    Bickle says IHOP does not promote this but former IHOPers have gotten with me and have told me that YES, this IS taught. “Don’t contact anyone from outside these IHOP walls. You want to ONLY hear from God and talking with outsiders will only cause this NOT to happen.

    Then there’s the imposed rule of fasting and on that note, who can hold a job if you’re spending that many hours per day in the prayer room?! The answer is “no one”. That hungry body combined with the lack of sleep, combined with contemplative prayer, combined with the feeling that only your group knows what’s really going on spiritually… equals a CULT. So what I am saying is that IHOP is a cult. Nothing more nothing less.

  212. As you’ll see, “Bond”, I had to edit your comment. Any comment that you write into this website that has anything vulgar in it will either be put into the trash bin or else it will be edited before it is posted. I don’t talk like you do and I don’t want my readers to have to view trash.


  213. “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.” http://biblehub.com/galatians/1-9.htm
    The harshest apostolic criticism given was against those who proclaimed any gospel other than the one they had delivered (yes, I am lumping all the apostles into what Paul expressly elucidated). So, does the gospel according to Mike Bickle compare favorably with the gospel according to Paul?
    I grew up in Terrace Lake, one mile from the shopping strip IHOP established itself in. My sister (& her family) were involved in KCF through the 80’s (a Vineyard Fellowship before KC-IHOP). I knew people there, but was never there myself. Without that direct knowledge, I have to go to the “Statement of Faith” which is, in broad strokes, orthodox (with indicators of extra-biblical & contra-biblical beliefs) & available recordings/writings.
    The root of the criticisms seems to be more regarding IHOP’s answer to the question: “now that I’m saved, what?” … which points back at the gospel. When Paul used the term “gospel” in Galatians, he referred to the entire body of instruction which the Galatians had received, which included “now what?”. The fact is, if MB & IHOP get the “after” wrong, they are as much in hot water as if they get the “before” wrong … and they get the “after” wrong. Persistently. (Do I need to inventory & document the errors here?)
    I cannot & will not attempt to discern why … that is not my judgment to make. What I will say is that some men (& women), when they stand to preach or teach, prefer their own ideas to the statements of Scripture. They candy-coat their teaching with Scripture (a spoonful of sugar helps the poison go down) … perhaps even most of what is taught is Biblical, but like IHOP’s statement of faith, it is a using of truth to deceive in order to advance themselves, their ideas, & their fame/notoriety. Even a “humble” person can be ambitious to make for himself a name … even if it is as noble as a name before God. Yet this too is pride & presumption.
    Does this mean I want to see MB stoned or burned (literally)? Of course not. I want for the Church (the Body of Holy Spirit-indwelt Believers) to reject ALL that is taught which is contrary to Scripture from every source … which means encouraging those who are refuting false teaching & teachers.
    In your refutation, keep your stance on Scripture … where it is manipulated by Bickle’s allegorizations, where it is contrary to Bickle’s prophetations, where it is broad where Bickle is narrow & narrow where Bickle is broad. Gracious always, but never embracing error or compromising lest another fall into error.

  214. Well said, sir. Well said. The attack is not against a person but the true enemy, Satan and the various tactics that he uses to fool new believers in Jesus Christ.

  215. The fact that you don’t have your name here is very telling. Is this the truth or not? Are you ashamed of what you’ve written? The fact that you remain anonymous leaves me to believe that you have a bone to pick or are simply trying to malign this man.

  216. The reason that I do not put my name down is because of the fact that one of my family members was involved in IHOP. This is for their protection as well. Incidentally I am not maligning the man as you said, I am telling the truth.

  217. Hi Annuk,

    I’m researching IHOP-KC’s origins for my own blog. About 10-15ish years ago, I was involved in a college church, in which some of our people were into IHOP music and Bickle’s teachings. From what I understand, some of the folks from my college church have gone on to participate in IHOP-KC, at least for the length of a training school or something to that effect.

    I am amazed at the sheer volume of testimonies I’ve been finding of problems affiliated with IHOP-KC, Bickle, and folks / organizations historically linked to Bickle and IHOP-KC.

    I am trying to research at present and draw my own conclusions from comparing (documented past and) current Bickle / IHOP-KC teaching and practice against what the Scriptures teach us. I have no objection to Scriptural teaching taught by Bickle and / or via IHOP-KC. What concerns me is what appears to be a long-standing pattern of refusal by leadership to confess to and repent of aberrant teachings and practices that have been leading many of our fellow brothers and sisters astray.

    I am concerned for our fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord — and especially for those from my college church, who, like me, were exposed to IHOP music and teachings while at my college church. I for one had no idea of IHOP-KC’s origins, and I doubt that many folks from my college church have, either, despite our propagation of Bickle / IHOP influence.

    Thank you for posting, and may the Lord ground us all firmly in His Word. = )

  218. The damage IHOP did in my own family was unbelievable. It took over 4 YEARS before my own IHOP child would even speak with me again. But our God is good and He is faithful. For those who fall into IHOP’s New Age teachings, namely Contemplative Prayer, which IS transcendental meditation, they have opened them selves up to Satanic influences no matter what they say. And never forget, the enemy does not come in as a wolf but rather wearing the disguise of a sheep. Mike Bickle would be one of those sheep – though he chooses to say he is pure as the driven snow… and how many other families has he destroyed? MANY – as many have contacted me begging for my help in getting their kids out of IHOP.

    I warn anyone looking into IHOP to RUN the other direction. Run, don’t walk.

  219. Annuck, read 1 John. You cannot claim to be a child of God and then tear a brother in Christ down. Mike Bickle is a man on fire for the Lord and his heart is steadfast for leading people to God. You can post and blog whatever you like and try to tear IHOP down, but honestly it won’t matter-Mike and his calling will continue to be blessed and many lives will be saved by this incredible man.

    ANNUNK RESPONSE: JODI, it is not necessarily Mike Bickel that I am trying to warn people about! It is his New Age teachings, specifically contemplative prayer. Nowhere in God’s word does it tell us to practice transcendental meditation. That is all contemplative prayer is, which makes it very much a part of the New Age being taught.

    Read some other parts of my blog and you will see this

  220. ANNUNK RESPONSE: You have a lot of good things to say here, but if you are practicing contemplative prayer, which is very much a part of IHOP, you are practicing a New Age teaching. That’s like jumping into the fire as quick as you can. Stay away from any ministry the teachers transcendental meditation. It is not in the Bible it is not a Christian teaching. All I’m doing is warning people to stay away from this teaching.

    Before putting my faith in Jesus Christ in 2000, I was assured I was to burn in Hell forever not by provocking preachers, but by the reality of the Holy Spirit that God is really there and really Holy. At the time I was very scared of God, because I knew I had a soul with an eternal destination. I now know that this is the fear of the Lord which is mentioned a lot in Psalms, Isaiah and throughout the Bible. I know now the difference between being afraid of God and a healthy fear of Him. God does not bear the sword for nothing! I was right in my young years to be afraid of the wrath of God I deserved.
    This all to say, I believe one of the foundation stones of Mike Bickles life is delighting in the fear of the Lord which was Jesus’s delight (Isaiah 11:1-3) Mike I believe (God is his judge) communes before the Lord in child-like faith. The only work God requires is believing in His Son. (I’m sure Mike does a lot of praying behind closed doors as well 😉 If we believe in Christ, don’t we know that Jesus invites us to follow Him, to share in His sufferings that we might be worthy to be found one with Him in Eternity? No man will truly suffer for the Lord unless the power of Gods love is in him to sustain him through the suffering that will come to Gods lagitamit children. To sustain me as I have counted the cost and move forward in my life & faith in Christ I need more of Gods love and grace! IHOPKC ministry reminds me continually that God is for me; that God hates sin, that God doesn’t set aside His holiness to allow sin in my life. God made one way for me through Jesus. In Christ (hidden in God). It’s not by works that I wish for more of God; it’s faith in Jesus (not in works) that cause me to obey Gods commands. Yes your right! if it’s not of God it won’t last! But I would’nt say “he’s deceiving the nations” (like a half naked slut on a corner downtown) either. IHOPKC is showing (the church) endurance is needed to last the times of testing and temptation; this season will break, but ultimately purify,& set apart Christs church. I’ve never lived with Mike; I’ve never shaken his hand. I’ve just her his teaching, read “After Gods own Heart” and it’s brought me closer to my redeemer who also is the God. I want God to judge my heart. That article did not convince me your living by Gods grace(Gods strength). Pray for Mike Bickle if you wish He would emphasize salvation. It is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. Mike gives the kindness of God. The Lord is using this blog to test and purify Mikes heart. YOU CANT STOP THE CHURCH IF THEY ARE WILLING TO SUFFER FOR CHRIST, ONLY PURIFY IT!!

  221. Annunk,
    God requires us if need be to leave our father and mother and follow Him.
    God knows the heart. If you believe in Jesus and your children do also, you will see them in heaven! (My guess is) this is a BIG misunderstanding of your loved ones heart and your tears might just be wiped away by Jesus in heaven. You won’t remember grudges and you’ll love the company of your children forever. TRUST GOD, it’s gonna be sooo worth it!

  222. Prayer is the best answer to our differences! I’m glad you left IHOP Annunk your spirit was so full that you just had to get out and share Jesus! Awesome! God has his plan to reach the whole world! My 129 years at best could never reach everyone. Mikes encouraging me in the Lord now, but I don’t need to move in with Him. All you young believers be diligently reading the Word. Be filled with The Holy Spirit of God He will lead you into all truth. If you need to know about Gods acceptance of you, (not Mikes) or want to know about the beauty of Jesus, or about how beautiful God thinks you are, the beauty of Gods heart, how amazing the human heart is and its potential to extend the kingdom of God on Earth; read, listen to what Mike has to share. I’d say I have benefitted much from this ministry at a distance.

  223. Should the bride not prepare herself? What if tanks do drive across our nation? It makes me want to fast & pray! If someone doesn’t start praying regularly at my church I’ll do it. The thing is, it be wise for me to serve the Lord, instead of my desires. For me it’s one or the other with my whole heart! I’m Ya’lls worst night mare if I lived for myself with all my heart! And there’s a lot out there that serve there own desires with all there heart; scary!!!

  224. Fear God, and Please Him. Delight yourself in the fear of the Lord like Jesus did. I want to be one in Christ!

  225. We had a VERY similar experience in a smaller house of prayer. Thankfully we are out. We have been threatened by people to keep our mouths shut. Lies were spread about us. We were in leadership (the inner circle). They didn’t like me much because I confronted. And when I did, you best believe I got talked to about it. I knew a lot of how things were handled were wrong. There is no accountability and if anybody tries they get punished. And you also get excommunicated if there is ever a sin issue and you go elsewhere for healing. Our marriage was falling apart and we decided to leave. Our therapist got called and they lied to them about a bunch of stuff. Thank the Lord our therapist has known me since I was in diapers. They didn’t believe it. It breaks my heart for those who get involved in this type of abuse and then get told that you are listening to “the black horse” if you talk about it at all. It’s a mess. God bless you and thank you for writing.

  226. And God bless you for your honesty and your willingness to share your experience, no matter how awful it was, with others. Again God bless you!

  227. When it is all over, all I want to hear is Him saying, “Well done thou good and faithful servant.”
    IHOP somehow teaches that you can work your way to heaven. That should tell anybody that is going to IHOP that they are saying The Cross just wasn’t enough! If you’re in IHOP get out of there! No one can work their way to heaven. No one.

  228. Or that if you sit in the prayer room that your reward is greater or special because of that. I agree. Prayer: All for it. House of Prayer: It’s very unhealthy. The idea of 24/7 prayer and worship I believe is very cool. BUT in a healthy setting is a better idea, to where people WANT to do it and aren’t coerced by “we are the only ones doing it” or “we are the REAL church and the rest of the world has it all wrong” kind of deal. I don’t know if ALL houses of prayer are like this, but this one was. And it sounds to me it flowed from the “top”. I really pray that eyes are opened and the Lord releases His grace upon them. The fruit of it is not peace, patience, kindness, long-suffering etc. We are suppose to be fruit inspectors, and if something is rotten, we should call it out. It seems to be the house of prayer culture is don’t question the leader, and if you do you are in sin, or hurting the body. Doesn’t line up with scripture whatsoever.

  229. I’m glad you got out of where you were. Sounds to me like the Holy Spirit had some plans for your life going in the right direction for a change…

    I’ve had a lot of angry writers send me some pretty hateful stuff lately regarding “How dare I speak out against Mike Bickel… And “touch not God’s anointed” Etc. etc.

    Too much more of this IHOP love and I might go ahead and close this blog down… But let’s be clear about one thing: telling the truth will many times not make a person very popular, take Paul for instance. I am doing as you suggested and that is checking out every little thing that you hear against God’s word. That is called being a Berean. That is what we are expected to do. If you don’t compare what you’re hearing against God’s word then you end up with people running all over the place following all kinds of different teachers with all kinds of different teachings, such as IHOP.
    IHOP teaches contemplative prayer and for all the people that write into me that are angry, angry, angry… Not a one of them has anything to say about Bickel teaching contemplative prayer. PS we know that it is nothing more than TM. But back to you! Thank you for all you had to say! I hope someone is definitely blessed by what you have said and LEAVES IHOP.

  230. So true. We are a part of a group in the city that the focus is to unite pastors. It has been an awesome experience. I am very thankful for them. Thankfully, my family has been established in this city for years. Everyone else who has left and got excommunicated was from another city. He threatened that he would make sure that they would never do ministry ever again in this city. He couldn’t do that with us, because these people have known us since I was in diapers. They all knew us. If anything it would have proved his ministry to be what it was. Based on fear and works. We are blessed for sure that the Lord covered us. He will have His justice in all of this. Whether they choose to turn or not. I really believe where I have found resolve is I am not the only one, which is why I think it is awesome that you spoke out. It makes others who maybe have experienced this not feel isolated or crazy because they are the only ones who see it. So thank you and know that there are those out there who have been through and have seen the same things you have.

  231. And lady, you are officially in my prayers. God’s protection will always protect you from anything the enemy throws at you. And I’m not calling Mike Bickel Satan, I’m just simply referring to the fact that Satan is definitely using Bickel and several many members of his groups to really stir up the pot. Anyway. You’re covered. Blessings at you!

  232. I totally agree and he probably has no clue. I do not think this guy does either. He actually use to run IHOPs internships. So it really doesn’t surprise me. They sound very very similar to me. Called by God but used by the enemy. Any time we wound people and deny it we are being used. We are called to live a life of humbleness and repentance. That is why David was after His own heart. He may have messed up a lot but he was quick to repent. I appreciate the prayers as we are still dealing with completely disconnecting from it. Walking away from people who you have poured your lives into is hard even when they make it “easy” to if that makes sense. We love everybody there but my husband said it best. They have to make a change for themselves and there is nothing we can do to help them. They have to want to help themselves.

  233. I understand what you meant, “‘Walking away from people who you have poured your lives into is hard even when they make it “easy” to if that makes sense.'”

    Yes, part of you wished they’d wake up and smell the coffee. Why couldn’t they be thinking,’If they’re leaving, and they were such great people, then WHY?’ It is something you should not lose sleep over. Just lift them in prayer and do what I did for years: pray that God would open their eyes to His truth and show them the lies. Because eventually, they do find themselves missing family assuming they’ve cut family off, or missing friends that they had before but they don’t have anymore. Eventually they realize something isn’t right or more people would be joining in – and this is despite all of the lies that they’ve been told about why people don’t go there. Keep asking, asking, asking and eventually God does answer to prayer(s).

  234. must be nice to be the chosen voice that know so much more than thousands of people who have been blessed and edified by his teachings

  235. Hey, just curious, but have you studied the background of contemplative prayer? Also which religion it started under? I ask because Mike teaches this and no one seems to want to discuss it when his name is connected to it.

  236. Just a warning but your next comment will be trashed if there’s not something a little bit more “meaty” to it.

  237. hello all there,I am 1000s of miles away from IHOP or Mike Bickle,Lord Jesus touched me @ my 22 years of age when I didnt even heard till then the name Jesus coz i am from a deep hindu religious family.After getting saved for about 13-14 years,once got to see IHOP in God channel for the 1st time and got touched by the massage like anything for the first time.Since then after studying His indepth teachings I am very much convicted to consider Mike Bickle as my spiritual father & IHOP is my first tithing church.SO I only want to say,anyone dare not speak anything against my spiritual father.If anybody is right or wrong Jesus is coming for all that,Jesus clearly said do not judge,You will be judged.Before judging anyone pl check how much perfect you are.Learn to receive the good fitting to you according to your capacity God has give you & apply in life & leave the other side.After all your focus should be on Jesus and the fellowship with Holy Spirit your teacher & not on any man.

  238. I do not know what it is meaning of “contemplative’ first of all.I just simply pray.I learnt to pray by his ‘pray – read’ teaching,I taught to so many here that teaching. What ever I read from the word of God,I take Mike Bickle uncles study notes to understand the meaning or elaboration of it in depth,For me,I want to love Jesus more & more,what ever uncle’s teaching focuses on this point I take it & apply it.The whole bible’s focus is Jesus,& Father God’s will also same & Mike uncle ‘s focus also this only & there is an anointing importation in His teaching to passion Jesus personally in secret time.(imp).I may not able to pray like He prays but I could become a leader to lead prayer time in the church(APC) before church service,I got confidence to pray in public by his teachings.I mainly learnt from him not to waste any time or money whether in office or at home,everything I try to maximum invest on Jesus,coz there is a reward kept for sure i realised.And his end time teachings,amazing…..I was asking God for long for clarity on end time,but in India no pastors touch this part seriously….any how there was gr8 stir up after knowing the end time scenarios by mike uncle’s teachings and i started crying out,Father I do not know whether others are ready but I am ready for my bridegroom,Lord Jesus come.. come…no more delay coz I miss Him very badly literally coz I started loving Him so much..all these intensity came by Mike uncle’s teachings though I had heard,involved in local church ministry for about 15 years,so since abt 2 years there are massive end time signs & increasing globaly….IHOP is my 1st tithing home church now out of other 4 tithing ministries being in India..Glory to my only love Jesus.

  239. You’re losing me on Mike “uncles” — bad translation?
    If you’re having to repeat a word or phrase continuously to “get into God’s presence” then THAT is contemplative and is not a Christian practice but is rather transcendental meditation. Then you’re praying to the wrong god. Mike promotes this type of prayer (you know this) so white washing it changes nothing. Contemplative prayer is New Age. VERY anti-Christ in every way.

  240. Its mostly used to a close family related,respect feeling word for a dad kind of person Well,its time for you to start a right ministry with right teachings rather than wasting time in judging others,All the best.

  241. I’m not judging the teachers, dear. I’m judging the TEACHINGS.
    That will not stop.
    And I hope and pray that God will open your eyes to the aberrant teachings that are taking place there.

  242. Holy Spirit is the only ultimate teacher.Can you judge the Holy Spirit’s teachings?I am dependent & controlled by the Holy Spirit of God,so donworry!!!!:) Whoever listen’s to anybody’s teachings but which comes thru God’s Spirit only will remain in a sincere believer’s heart & Spirit,rest goes off in the other ear.God takes care of His people.Just focus on God’s goodness dear & not on peoples faults.Let God be God & people be people.Everything will be fine acc.to God’s word.

  243. 2Pet 2:1-3 & Rom 12:1. Have you even ever read them, really pondered what they meant? Don’t you realize that false teachers will fill you up with everything your flesh wants to hear. They will fill you up with everything that is in complete contrariness to God’s word. And yet you walk away believing them thinking that they are the next best thing to God himself. What a pitiful and sad place to be. I highly recommend that you read your entire New Testament instead of just bits and pieces because God calls us to study to show ourselves approved. That’s not just something he recommends that is just something that he happens to tell us to do. End of discussion.

    You say that you are dependent and controlled by the Holy Spirit of God so don’t worry? Why did God give us so many instances of easy ways to fall into deception unless he himself was aware of the deception that would be all around us. What makes you so special that this could not possibly happen to you?

    Rather than simply focus on all the fluff about God I prefer to focus on the entire scripture that he is given us which, by the way, includes repentance. Repentance is something that I hear very little about coming out of the mouths of several teachers, Mike Bickle happening to be just one of many who leave this portion out.
    To make a point, perhaps this is why God’s word tells us that there will be a much stricter judgment for those who are teachers. Too many teachers take the truth, wind it, bend it and twist it into whatever they want and yet the people end up receiving it with gladness. That, in and of itself, is a very sad, sad commentary on the body of Christ today. BE the different one. BE the searcher of His Truth instead of what you simply here and take notes on.

  244. Don’t look right or left. Focus on the Lord, look up where our help comes from. These are all distractions when there is work to be done, brokenness on another level, sickness, hopelessness, despair and the like all around us. Where has God placed us? We need to work while it is day… Our ministry is active and small things can mean all the difference and change someone’s life in an instant. The word of God tells us to meditate on the pure, the good. Jesus tells us that the wheat and tares grow together, but allow them to. It exposes what’s in us. Our re’action’s our attitude, our heart and what we need to work on. It’s easy to blame, criticise others, when we don’t want to look in the mirror…. Too uncomfortable…but God allows things because He loves us so much His desire is that we draw closer to Him, by doing so we become more like Him in His image and likeness because as we do, we display more of the fruit of the spirit and surrender our lives, our will, our desires and realise we are created by God for God. We are here to serve Him. The Bible tells us it’s not good for a ‘man’ not to work. There’s no time for petty wranglings, disputes, arguments etc. We are living in desperate times. Do we actually think that God is blind or ignorant to where we are ALL at? Can He be deceived? Of course not, but in His time He will deal with and is dealing with everything that isn’t right. Including churches. If IHOP is new age then it’s God’s business not ours. God sees our heart and for those who have a desire to seek God, The Holy Spirit will guide and lead us in truth even if we are deceived for a while. Revelation tells us about the condition of the churches. If people are being deceived, there is a reason and greater purpose for this. Maybe our relationship with God isn’t right, maybe it’s to expose our intent, motive and hearts. Maybe it’s to steer us in another direction. It appears some people have too much time on their hands. Get out there, do some voluntary work if you don’t have paid work, volunteer to do something for a friend, a neighbour, someone in need, a brother or sister in Christ. Let’s give God glory. Let’s magnify the Lord. These ‘opininions’ or whatever they are which I clearly stumbled across for a reason are NOT edifying, uplifting, encouraging. It’s more like ‘ego’s’ one crashing with another. Jesus tells us to deny self.. If we are dead to self, we won’t be offended or persist in making a point. God must be grieved and we wonder why we don’t see an abundance of miracles and a supernatural move of God. Yes, God is moving but not as in the time of Acts. Why? They were ‘in one accord’. There is POWER in unity. God loves unity and moves where there is harmony amongst us. Are we the body of Christ? Then let’s find ways of moving forwards. St Paul addressed the spiritual immaturity of churches who disagreed and were divided (Corinthians). Time to move on in Jesus mighty name xXx

  245. Thank you for your comment you had a lot of good things to say. Regarding looking in the mirror, however, that’s not the issue. What the issue is is New Age. IHOP promotes New Age and for that reason I will warn other people To stay away from IHOP. You did say that we are to meditate on God’s word and I agree! However meditating on God’s word and contemplative prayer meditation are two entirely different things. Meditating on God’s word is most certainly scriptural, whereas contemplative prayer is Satanic in nature… And Mike Bickle (& other teachers there) highly promote contemplative prayer.
    So where your comment says time to Move on… I shall never fail to warn people that IHOP is new age.
    IHOP nearly destroyed my family and I would not wish that upon anyone. Not now or ever.

    And to any PARENT who is considering allowing their child to go to IHOP, please note: IHOP IS A CULT. You would be sending your child to a cult.

  246. I am a believer in the Lord Jesus as my saviour. Im am a born again follower of Jesus. The Bible says to love the Lord our God totally and love our neighbours as ourselves. God is the Judge. We do our part by loving our neighbours and leave judging, criticism etc to God. We need to pray for blessings, provision and protection, mercy and grace for Church leaders as they are targeted by the enemy and God’s Judgement will be at a higher level for leaders. Judgement, criticism leads to bitterness and hardness in our hearts. Forgiveness leads to freedom in Christ. May you feel the love and blessings of Jesus in all you do. Numbers 6:24-26, Liz Scott-Dawkins

  247. Liz, please tell me where Jesus tells us to pray specifically for false teachers.

    Additionally, if I did not love my neighbor as myself I would not warn them about IHOP.

  248. I am not going to state my opinions here, but instead share facts. These are facts that I know from actual firsthand, current experience.

    #1. Contemplative prayer is not encouraged at IHOP. Instead, prayers are built from specific prayers from the bible, with a heavy emphasis on intercession. (Prayer for the benefit of others) Meditation on Scripture IS encouraged, but this is Biblical. (Psalm 63:5, Psalm 119:148)

    #2. Works-based Christianity is not taught or condoned. One of the classes taught is about Grace, warning against different kinds of “false grace”, both the “easy believeism” and “legalism” brands. (Grace and the Sermon on the Mount, currently taught by Amanda Gentry)

    #3. A “perfect” love affair with God is not promised, nor is any special church position. The goal at IHOP is not personal gain. If you come to IHOP with a focus on personal gain you will be encouraged to change your point of view.

    #4. The quick turnover that the author of this post mentioned is a myth. True, some people come and go, but most of the people who I know at IHOP have been here for between three and fifteen years.

    #5. No matter who you talk to among the leadership at IHOP, you will consistently be encouraged to search out what you hear in the word of God. The teachings here are not based on what Mike Bickle would like to be true, but are taught straight from scripture.

    #6. The Bible teaches clearly that God answers the prayers of His children. The author of this post seems to think that prayer is ineffective. That view is inconsistent with his claim to believe what the Bible says.

    #7. The second to last sentence in the Bible is John’s prayer, “come Lord Jesus”. Prayers requesting His return are biblical. (Revelation 22:19)

    #8. The author of this post claims that Mike is waiting for “signs and wonders” to validate his teachings, and that those signs will not happen. Regardless of Mike’s heart attitude (or the author’s apparent beliefs) about signs and wonders, the Bible says explicitly that signs will accompany those who believe. (Mark 16:17-18)

    One last exhortation for anyone who may be reading this; please do not spread negative information about a ministry unless you have that information from personal, firsthand experience. Not everyone who is badmouthing a ministry is doing so from pure motives.

    If you are not sure who to believe about this topic, and want to know exactly what Mike Bickle IS teaching, mikebickle@ihopkc.org has all of his teachings as well as his notes, which are heavily riddled with scripture references.

  249. My information IS from personal, firsthand experience.
    My family WAS ripped apart for YEARS thanks to IHOP.
    Thanks go to God for repairing the damage done from IHOP.
    And you never answered my question about scriptural basis for contemplative prayer — because YES, IHOP / Bickle DO promote it. (Just Google….)
    Lastly, I am not here to argue. Only do I post this blog to WARN.

    The day God impresses me to D/C this thing, it will be taken down right away. Until then….

  250. I have never heard such poppycock in all my life. I was there too. Very close to Mike & Diane…very little of the above is true. Mike used no one. He hears from God and obeys. GET YOUR FAX STRAIGHTWRITER OF THE ABOVE (probably Cheryl or Bob.

  251. Get your spelling checked, my dear. “Get your ‘fax’ straight…”
    Did we mean “FACTS”???

    What I wrote was indeed FACT and you are the exception to the rule… Lucky you..

  252. Can anyone tell me which lies is Mike trying to instill in people’s hearts through that contemplative prayer many talk about?

  253. Contemplative prayer is transcendental meditation. To answer your question: TM. That’s the lie and that’s what he’s “instilling in people’s hearts”.

  254. Can you tell which lies he tries to instill in people’s heart? is he using the contemplative prayer for specific purpose?

  255. meditation is necessary for living the principles the Bible Teaches us, in fact we ought to be meditating day and night in God’s Word. Consider, meditate is all part of keeping our hearts in God’s Word.

  256. I have Heard Mike Bickel say that for contemplative prayer to work correctly your mind it needs to be completely blank, completely empty of any and every thought. That is not meditating on God’s word, that is transcendental meditation. In addition to that, nowhere can that be found in Scripture and please do not take “be still and know that I am God” and tell me that that’s what that is saying. Nothing could be further from the truth.

  257. Yes, you are right, we cannot communicate with God if we empty our minds to zero. That couldn’t accomplish anything. Meditating in Zero equals nothing, Meditate in God’s Word equals ALL. We need The Word in front of us always.

    I agree with you, that verse answers it by itself Col. 4,2 We need to have an alert mind in our prayer lifes.

    And about Psalms 48:10

    “Being still is talking about more than not moving; it is speaking of meditating and being reflective. We must calm ourselves and spend time just musing* (ABSORBED IN THOUGHT) on the goodness and greatness of God. A hectic lifestyle is detrimental to really knowing God.
    I woke up one morning with the reference “Psalms 46:10” going over and over in my mind. Even though I was very familiar with this verse, I couldn’t remember what it said. So I looked it up and decided that day I would literally sit totally still for one hour and see what happened. It was amazing. I sat on our patio and noticed things I would normally have missed. For instance, I noticed thousands of ants that I normally wouldn’t have paid any attention to. I noticed the wind in the trees. Deer walked right up to me because I was so still. I noticed sounds and smells that I would have missed if I had been busy doing something else.
    So one of the things I think this verse is instructing us to do is to quit being so busy that we don’t notice God’s working. It’s always going on, but we often miss it in our busyness. Stillness increases our awareness. God is being exalted among the heathen and all throughout the earth, but we can miss this if we are too busy with the affairs of this life (Mark 4:19)” EXTRACT TAKING FROM A COMMENTARY

    *Musing is just another word for meditating. It is focusing upon something long and hard enough in our thoughts that it forms an image in our imaginations. If this is negative, it’s what the Scripture calls vain or evil imaginations (Genesis 6:5 and 2 Corinthians 10:5), and if it’s positive, it’s what the Scripture calls hope.

  258. Just be careful because what you are describing is different then Mike Bickle’s contemplative prayer. Go back and listen to what he has preached. You should see the difference I’m talking about.

  259. I have a few questions on the topic of contemplative prayer.
    1. Does Mike’s “instructions” on contemplative prayer actually end with clearing one’s mind, or does it continue with additional instruction that might be in line with ridding one’s mind of worldly things or distractions.
    2. Is Mike “actually” teaching contemplative prayer, or is he teaching something else which he is “calling” contemplative prayer? The definition of “contemplate” is very well in line with having an alert prayer life.

    I have similar question regarding contemplative worship, as I have been holding meetings I’ve been calling as such in my home for a couple months. Having been brought up in a charismatic church, I’ve recently (over the last decade or so) been re-examining a lot of the doctrines that I’ve been taught. I’m not sure where I consider myself on this point – charismatic or cessationist. One of my bigger conclusions as of somewhat recently is the realization that a lot of charismatic churches are essentially using emotion as an indicator of the presence of God. I see this now as teetering on the brink of idolatry of self. Whereas many might turn full circle on this and commit the opposite extreme of avoiding all religious emotion, I think the answer (and the honesty) is in the middle. Indeed, I’ve found it easier to open my heart in worship lately in a small group (which has always been harder for me than a large group) since I’m not engaging in this subconscious, pretentious idea that it’s this super-spiritual thing.

    I’m wanting to open a sort of unified worship center in my hometown, where musicians from churches in the area are able to use their skills to worship God without service-based restrictions (which I understand are necessary), YET I do not wish to pretend that we are doing some great thing just because we use music to evoke emotion. I am becoming increasingly aware (but still have much to learn) about the psychology behind behavior in groups, as well as how music can induce a trance-like state. For musicians that do improv, this is extremely useful for creativity (often called being in the “zone”), but in the wrong hands can be abused to teach false doctrines through singing. I want to make this state of mind known so that people do not fall into it.

    Sorry, not sure why I’m posting all this here, except that contemplative prayer was brought up, and I really have nobody to talk to about since all my friends are pretty much all-on charismatic. I don’t mean to hijack the main topic. I do somewhat support what IHOP is doing (mainly the worship style), but that does not mean I blindly follow & believe everything that comes from them. In fact, I can’t remember ever turning to IHOP for teaching. I’ve always found it vague and wishy-washy.

  260. 1. Yes. Mike has specifically taught that for contemplative prayer to work correctly, ones mind needs to be completely 100% emptied.
    2. Mike is actually teaching contemplative prayer which is very new age in its origin. It is synonymous with transcendental meditation meaning it is the same identical thing.
    Any “worship” that you’re taking part in should not center on feelings but rather in faith. Faith in him, faith in his word. Faith in the God we serve. Self should never be a part of that worship experience. If you are basing your “spiritual walk” on what you are “feeling” then you were going to have a very sad spiritual life. Jesus told us we were to walk by faith and not by sight.
    I’m glad that you do not blindly follow and believe everything you hear. You need to be a Berean just like in the New Testament.

  261. Questioning the baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be in vogue now- Along with replacement theology & throwing out the rapture. All 3 scare me as much as IHOP.

  262. Baptism in the Holy Ghost seems to go in 30-35 year spurts (in my lifetime). It was huge back in the late 70s to mid-80s. It’s for real. It’s just that people seem to go nuts with the messages and interpretations… I’ve heard some totally off base interpretations…
    The rapture will eventually happen so no worries there. I don’t even fool with replacement theology. That’s just a new twist to a message that didn’t require twisting. Relax. Keep your eyes on Him and His Word. Be the Berean. Check, check, check everything you hear against God’s Word. Never take his word in bits and pieces but rather read it in context. You won’t miss that way.

  263. I agree that emotion/self should not be central. One of the core beliefs/affirmations I plan to put on our website is that even though our function is musical in nature, we uphold that the ultimate display of worship is how we conduct our lives. However, I also believe that stoicism and worship are incompatible by definition: You cannot express love, respect, or homage to God while expressing nothing.

    My experience from being taught about contemplative prayer has never included clearing one’s mind of all thought. I do not believe Mike Bickel’s version of contemplative prayer is on par with more mainstream definitions. For example, Catholics define it like this: “A form of wordless prayer in which mind and heart focus on God’s greatness and goodness in affective, loving adoration; to look on Jesus and the mysteries of his life with faith and love.” Many churches outside Catholicism teach a similar definition. Let’s not assume that what Mike calls contemplative prayer is the same as what others refer to as contemplative prayer.

    The danger in clearing ones mind is that when you reach this state of mind, random words, phrases, sentences, or images pop into your head, sometimes without making sense. Most of us experience this naturally while trying to fall asleep. Being taught that this is God’s voice can lead to all sorts of bizarre ideas & doctrines.

  264. I agree with some of what you said and I recommend that you Google contemplative prayer/New Age. That is what Mike Bickel teaches as well as 99% of other teachers.

  265. That statistic is inaccurate. A handful of high-profile teachers does not make a majority: it only makes their teachings accessible to larger crowd. Let’s assume the example I provided previously is the only denomination using that definition of contemplative prayer (which it is not). That means a minimum of 50% are teaching TM under the name of contemplative prayer, based on the ratio of Catholics to all denominations.

    I think that perhaps you are not acknowledging that there are two practices circulating under the name of “contemplative prayer,” which inevitably leads to a fallacy of equivocation. You are pointing to new new age groups using TM as contemplative prayer, then stating that essentially all contemplative prayer is TM. I see many others online doing the same thing.

  266. I think you are using a very dangerous form to rationalize why you think contemplative prayer is OK for some people…
    That’s allowing New Age to present itself and yet you’re making excuses for “why” some CP is ok. Sorry but you are playing with fire.

  267. No. I’m not. Not even close. You are continuing to use the aforementioned logical fallacy, and now are taking it further to misrepresent my position, which is a logical fallacy of its own. Clearing one’s mind by chanting mantras in hopes of invoking something supposedly spiritual is nowhere near the same practice as reflecting on and thinking about God’s goodness with an alert mind with no intent of invoking something spiritual. They have little to nothing in common. Yes, this makes warning about TM marginally more difficult, but saying that all contemplative prayer is TM is incorrect. The accurate statement is “SOME contemplative prayer is transcendental meditation.” Like many things, the correct definition depends on context, not agenda.

    From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation
    “Equivocation (“to call by the same name”) is an informal logical fallacy. It is the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning or sense (by glossing over which meaning is intended at a particular time). It generally occurs with polysemic words (words with multiple meanings).”

  268. The problem with Mike Bickle’s viewpoint on contemplative prayer is that he said for it to be effective, one must empty their mind 100%. EMPTY. That, without exception, is TM and is demonic.

  269. I agree that it’s not a prescribed method of prayer. Saying it’s demonic, though, is a bit out there. TM is a mental experience, not a spiritual one.

  270. If you believe what you just said plus you are practicing it, you are playing with fire. It most certainly is daemonic. I recommend that you hit google 1000 times over and see what I’m talking about. But never mind that, see someone who has been doing this for a long time and you will see what happens. Demonic. Nothing but demonic.

  271. Pretty sure I never said I was practicing it.
    Sorry, but no. It’s psychology, plain and simple, and has been well studied enough to know that it is extremely similar to REM sleep. Often, it’s considered a 4th state of consciousness deeper than REM sleep. So-called visions in this state are nothing more than dreams. 360 peer-reviewed studies have been conducted on TM over approximately the last 40 years. Plenty of people practice it without all the religious nonsense attached to it. Even the equivalent of a mantra is unnecessary. If it were demonic, how can it be practiced when stripped from the source of its supposed demonic power (its religion)? The fact that some ancient people stumbled upon a psychological phenomenon that they didn’t understand and made a religion from it does not imbue it with demonic power. That is pure superstition, disguised as Christian discernment.


    The only realistic concern for using TM as a Christian should be when it is used to displace or amend a Biblical practice (such as with Bickle’s teaching), because such an application is disobedience. It could likely be argued that any use of TM is displacing a Christian discipline. Even so, that doesn’t make it “demonic.” It is completely unnecessary (and will get fewer people to take you seriously) to resort to the extremes of calling something demonic, when we can just say, “Hey, God wants us to deal with our stress by submitting our worries in prayer and fully trusting in Him instead of using TM.”

  272. Pls see Matt 12:43-45. I wish you could see this through my eyes. I have seen this played out with people who’ve been deep into contemplative prayer. No matter what you say I’ve seen this played out and have seen the enemy totally use the opportunity to enter those who’ve been in it.

  273. Brandon, I highly recommend that you go to YouTube and just put contemplative prayer in the search box. THESE were what Mike Bickle was promoting. All the catholic priests were promoting the same identical thing. Basing it, of course, on Psalm 46:10 “Be still and know I’m God.”….

  274. I believe you are elevating your personal experiences to a position above scientific study. Personal experiences shall always be limited to our present level of knowledge and understanding, which will never be the same between any two people. Using TM and abusing TM are two different things. Bad psychological effects from abusing TM is different from being demonic. Abusing TM in any context, including those “deep in CP,” can result in a lot of bad and sometimes permanent effects on the mind, even as extreme as psychosis, but that is still psychological, not demonic. I have witnessed psychosis and mental breakdowns up close, and it is not uncommon for a person with psychosis to believe or appear to others as if they are under demonic influence. (This can be true of other mental illnesses as well.) There is a reason why professionals (as in real professionals, not TM teachers) recommend a pretty low amount of time to use TM per day. Staying in that state for too long increases the risk for psychological damage, most commonly dissociation. Staying in the guidelines of the recommended time (about 20 minutes no more than twice a day) has been repeatedly shown to be beneficial without damage. Do not misunderstand – that doesn’t mean I’m calling it Biblical. I believe that if one wants to turn to meditation, there are better options than TM that are more cognitive in nature, and thus more compatible with scripture.

    I have already been watching CP and TM videos on YouTube. I have already stated I disagree with TM-based teachings of CP, such as Mike Bickle’s teaching. The definition of CP I provided earlier was lifted directly from a Catholic website, and is backed up similarly on the Vatican’s website. Any catholic priest practicing TM as CP is in contradiction to the formal position of their denomination. No such TM-like practice is outlined. Quite the contrary, cognitive thought (real contemplation) is encouraged.

    I’m not sure I see a connection with Matthew 12:43-45 to this discussion. I usually see this verse referenced by those who practice demonology to partly justify the false ministry of demonic deliverance of Christians. (Scripture only shows this practice on a few unbelievers as a vessel for conversion.)

  275. “Using TM and abusing TM are two different things…”
    What can I say? You’re basically saying that playing with a little fire holds less danger from getting burned than playing with a lot of fire.
    My personal experiences have watched people come apart after getting so deeply into/involved with CP.
    My personal experience includes watching families get destroyed by IHOP and its practice of CP.
    You wouldn’t be shaking your head at what I’m saying if you’d gone through the same.

  276. Literally everything man can do has the potential to be abused. You are acting as if there is no difference between using something and abusing it, when the difference is quite significant. It sounds like your experiences are examples of abuse. The analogy of playing with fire is inaccurate. The difference between use and abuse is more like the difference between lighting a candle and lighting a gasoline-soaked building on fire. Huge difference.

  277. If you’ve never experienced the IHOP abuse, it is near impossible to explain it.
    It is totally impossible to explain how IHOP, its teachings and its leadership destroyed my own family for years.
    It is only through the Holy Spirit that my own family was reconstructed.
    You can never fully understand.
    You can use all the psychology you want but it will never explain all the destruction that occurred – compliments of Mike Bickle and IHOP. It will continue to take years to undo the damage.
    I’m sorry you cannot understand.

  278. How’s your ministry going? Spending your life and energy attacking IHOP. How many years you been on the internet batteling others Annuk (not your real name)? What a waste. Congratulations. I’m sure your rewards at the Bema Seat will be astonishing?

  279. Thank you, Brandon. No comment from here other than more than a few have changed their minds about allowing their children to go there. For that, I truly give God thanks. After all, why should their family have to go through what mine went through?
    Ann Unknown

  280. Bema seat… The blood of Christ covers me, Brandon. I do as I’m called. And I give God all the glory. Christians should never fear the judgement seat. Never.

  281. Good job Annunk!!
    I commend you for your courage to speak out against deception!! Isn’t that what Paul did?
    God Bless you today!!

  282. Yes it is what Paul did and you’ll remember he was viciously hated as well. For each that writes in I pray that God will remove the blinders from their eyes as did He my own child. It took time but it DID eventually happen – PTL.
    Thank you for the encouragement.

  283. What IHOP and all NAR affiliates teach is repackaged “latter rain” doctrine- a doctrine that was deemed false in the 1930s and 1940s! There is new “latter rain” being “greater than the former.” They take scriptures out of context, distort them, and follow false self-appointed “Apostles” and “prophets” which teach new revelations that are apart from scripture. These Revelations usually occur during their messages, where they constantly are saying’ the lord told me x,yz, and i had this ‘encounter with the lord.” I went to a NAR church where the pastor was buddy buddy with Bill Johnson and Mike Bickle/Joyner/the like for seven years, at the bidding of a relative. I left it finally after seeing zero personal spiritual growth since every week it was either about the pastor’s experiences (i..e not the Bible or gospel which causes men to repent of their sin) or about the pastor’s money (he happened to be wealthy). The teachings incite people to want more and more “experience” and not sound doctrine. Those left out are seen as “lesser” Christians because they didn’t have a visitation. The music would last over an hour and included repetitions of songs for 30+ minutes. At times it was hypnotic. Certain guest speakers came (such as the head-shaking whoosh lady–arnott etc) but I always thought something was weird about it since there was no Gospel preached. Even Heidi Baker did not preach a call to repentance when she spoke at our church. Everything was about “desiring” “more” of “god.” What about the lost in the pews ? What about the sinner who goes to church who needs to repent? You couldn’t bring an unsaved person to the church, they would have been weirded out and want to leave. Manifestations were given an elevated level of holiness which is entirely bizzare and not found in the Bible. I felt like whenever we had each other pray for one another I needed to pray before they tried. In the seven years I was there, I only remember ONE message discussing hell. That is pathetic. The pastor that gave it left and moved to another state. This whole movement is sick and sad.

  284. Finally I meet another Berean. Good job! God definitely gave you His discernment in seeing all that you saw. I praise God that you got out. It is not easy to find repentance preaching churches anymore. Young people today believe churches are just short of nothing…. After prayer however, God does supply the places to worship. Good for you and thank you for your comment. A jolly great comment at that.

  285. Jae & Annunk – No kidding- nailed it. It is aimed at emotions & trying, I guess to be God centered – but is actually man centered. Ugh. It’s tough to find any church- I YouTube Mark Biltz’s church. Went to a pentecostal church locally- sweet, precious people & pastor & message – When they took the offering they all spoke an affirmation over their gift to make them rich. Freaky Word of Faith leftovers. I was under the impression that if your focus was on God – all that would be added. It’s tough. Maybe we should meet in homes in small groups like the early church

  286. “WOF leftovers…”. Amen to that. Word of Faith relied and relies on “self” to motivate their people to get excited about their teachings and doctrine. FOR EXAMPLE: Luke 6 is where the ‘give and it shall be given unto you…’ comes from, which is a huge regarding the prosperity doctrine. Wrong. Read that while part IN CONTEXT. It is actually pointing at forgiveness and helping others. It is NOT about getting $$$. (Like Jesus would ever push getting financially rich.)
    From the early 80s, I remember Kenneth Copeland would start his message on giving by citing a time when he was SO poor if the (tithing) plate was passed, if I didn’t have any money, “I would throw a pen in that plate to make sure that I got something back!”
    To all this I ask this question: Where is it that I want to store up my riches? It sure isn’t down here.

  287. You stated ” Everything was about “desiring” “more” of “god.” What about the lost in the pews ? What about the sinner who goes to church who needs to repent?” Not every message is salvation. Ii suggest you stick to Baptist sermons only. You are boring, confused and ignorant. Your entire comment is rubbish filled with lies.

  288. Hey Bugalugs
    Please go ahead and inspire us with your version of the gospel, please tell us in your opinion why we should be inspired by our Glorious King, please explain in your words why Jesus is our Great Hope? After you have finished I will tell you who’s version ignites my heart to worship most; Your’s or Mikes.
    Muge Down Under

  289. Just as I thought, you have no inspiring vision of your own; you only have bitterness and criticism. You offer no light because you are captured by darkness.

  290. Rail on nay-sayers against God’s anointed. As you wallow in your frustrations, you only curse yourselves and confirm what is promised during the end times!

  291. I want to remind you that the apostle Paul didn’t win any popularity contests while he was in the process of warning the people about the false prophets (who were presumably being treated as anointed messengers of God).

  292. I checked IHOP’s website and can’t find anything on this so-called contemplative prayer. Do you think Mike Bickle no longer teaches it? Your article was very eye-opening to be sure.

  293. Here’s what I found as of recent. You’re right in that Mike Bickle has had all mentions of Contemplative prayer removed from the IHOP website. I doubt, however, that he’s has discontinued teaching it. I have never read anything by Mike stating he was off in one of his teachings..

    International House of Prayer, IHOP
    Question: “What is the International House of Prayer (IHOP)?”

    Answer: The “International House of Prayer” (IHOP) is a para-church ministry located in south Kansas City, Missouri. IHOP was founded by Rev. Mike Bickle in 1999. Its primary purpose seems to be international prayer of intercession. Since 1999, the International House of Prayer has experienced explosive growth, with the group acquiring significant amounts of property in Grandview, Missouri, and opening up satellite branches in other cities. The rapid expansion, the unusual practices, the fierce loyalty of many IHOP members, and the relative newness of the ministry have led many to question whether the International House of Prayer is a biblically solid ministry or a cult.

    At the International House of Prayer, there is active prayer taking place, literally 24/7, without interruption, and this has been the case for many years. 24/7 prayer is a good thing. There is no such thing as “praying too much,” so, in this area, IHOP is to be commended. The problem arises, however, in the type of prayer that is taking place. The International House of Prayer has adopted many of the practices of the contemplative prayer movement, with much more focus on mysticism and contemplative spirituality than on worshipping the Lord in prayer and interceding for others through prayer. Some elements of the IHOP employ prayer in a Word-Faith manner, claiming things from God rather than submitting to God’s will in humility. There are also reports of prophetic prayer, praying in tongues, and other ecstatic practices. So, while 24/7 prayer is commendable, if the prayers being uttered are not biblical, there is no true value in them.

    Another concern with the International House of Prayer is its connection with the prophetic movement in general, and the Kansas City Prophets specifically. Instead of a biblical understanding of prophecy, that is, declaring the truth that God has revealed, IHOP essentially views prophets as Christian psychics, with prophetic hotlines, prophetic readings, and an emphasis on personal prophecy. Many have been led astray by those claiming to be apostles and prophets with a “word from the Lord.” There have been many reports of spiritual abuse and prophetic manipulation within the International House of Prayer movement.

    This misunderstanding of the gift of prophecy leads to another area of concern. The International House of Prayer has an extreme over-emphasis on the miraculous gifts of the Spirit. Much has already been written on the cessation of the miraculous gifts, but IHOP’s use of these gifts goes far beyond what most Charismatics and Pentecostals will accept. At IHOP, the miraculous gifts of the Spirit are expected to be commonplace. Miraculous healings, visions, dreams, prophecies, tongues, words of knowledge, signs, wonders, etc., are claimed to be constant within the ministries of IHOP. Whether full cessationism is accepted or not, IHOP’s claims regarding the gifts of the Spirit do not at all agree with what the Bible presents. In the New Testament, the miraculous gifts of the Spirit authenticated the teachings of the apostles (2 Corinthians 12:12). If miracles are normal, they cannot have an authenticating quality to them. IHOP’s claims regarding miracles do not agree with what the Bible teaches about miracles, signs, and wonders. We would all be wise to remember Jesus’ warning in Matthew 24:24, “For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.”

    With all of that said, clearly, IHOP should not be considered a biblically sound ministry/organization. The above concerns are only the “tip of the iceberg” in comparison to some of the things that have been reported by former IHOP members/participants. Should the International House of Prayer movement be considered a cult? That is more difficult to answer. Generally speaking, a cult is a group that has false teaching on one or more of the core truths of the Christian faith, such as the deity of Christ or salvation by faith alone. On these core truths, IHOP appears to be solid and biblical. However, other common identifying factors of a cult are present at IHOP, such as it being controlled primarily be one individual, fierce loyalty to the organization, communal living, and a feeling of superiority over the uninitiated. So, while the International House of Prayer should probably not be considered a cult, there are enough serious concerns about its beliefs and practices to prevent Christians from getting involved in its ministries.

    This is from the Stop IHOP Cult site.

  294. Uggg. Thats the problem- now you’ll throw out tongues & miracles. Uggggg

  295. You’re talking apples and oranges. One’s new age and the other is biblical. But you knew that, right?

  296. Love this. I have had many people trying to get me to go to IHOP on one of their week retreats. God has always put up roadblocks so I began searching on my own and now understand why the Lord was keeping me from this place. I was even unable to get past the first page of one of his books.

  297. The main post is anonymous.

    How are we to know if the person is credible or not?

    After all, it could be a lie.

  298. Seriously? You are welcome to believe what you may. I can only attest to the fact that this is not a disreputable post nor author of said post. The author is very much known by many.

  299. Who was this person that wrote this? I knew the Bickles as well and was just curious. Can you email the name?

  300. Jesus would be returning soon to reveal everything directly in front of all,have patience bit more & stop exchanging arguments & judgements. If anybody is so perfect on earth,wait for reward accordingly from the Lord.

  301. I thought you would say that seeing how most smear campaign authors never really reveal who they are. So how are we to know the author of this blog is of sound mind and not like those he/she is accusing? Why post something as condeming as this publicly and not own up to it so we, the public, can weigh both sides?

  302. To annunk: Thank you so much for the article. I sent it to a friend who just bravely left a cult and she asked me about IHOP. I knew from years ago that it was dangerous and found your article and sent it to her. She was very grateful and now has abandoned the idea of getting in touch with them. The person who wrote the article was brave and surely concerned for people who are seeking but have no discernment. To all who read this: As a born-again believer of 43 years, I can say that the gift of discernment is one of the most, if not THE most critical gift to have in these last days. Jesus called pastors to shepherd flocks—find a local church that preaches the Word without compromise, and find your place there. Use your gift, whether it be music, hospitality, administration, children’s ministry, etc. There is a congregation somewhere that is not complete without you. Never seek a movement.

    Mark 12:30-31King James Version (KJV)

    30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

    31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

  303. I do not understand what your problem is when you say that it is heresy to pray prayers to contemplate the beauty of the Lord if it is written in Psalm 27: 4 in the Psalmist’s prayer

  304. That’s not what was said here at all. It is heresy to pray comteplatively as that type of “prayer” is nothing short of transcendental meditation. It’s New Age, and it’s completely unbiblical. Nowhere in scripture are we ever told to slow our breathing and empty our minds in order to enter God’s presence.

  305. I am so glad to hear you say this. I’ve tried to add absolutely nothing to the original thoughts of this post. I really wanted this to simply be an open window for anyone to look in so-to-speak. Thank you, Carl.

  306. My family of four has attended FCF, the church associated with IHOP, for almost two years now, we’ve been to the One Thing conference many times and I go to the prayer room about once a week and not once have I heard the slightest mention of contemplative prayer or anything related to TM. We have heard lots and lots of sound, biblical teaching and great worship. Much of the prayer and worship at IHOP is based on scripture. I’m not at all saying it’s perfect but for the last two years it is nothing like what is being portrayed in this blog. There are also some great works being done in the Kansas City area by IHOP people, such as, a major movement to end sex trafficking (Exodus Cry), daily ministry to the poor and homeless (Hope City), weekly ministry to underserved children (KidCity7), evangelism campaigns in KC and outside KC (Kansas City Evangelism Fellowship and Operation Save KC), Adoption (Orphan Justice Center), ending abortion, ministry to abused women, and mission trips. There are probably a lot more that I am not aware of. And many have gone out from IHOP to minister in other parts of the country and world. As a man in my fifties I admire the passion for Jesus that I see in so many of the young people at IHOP as well those of all ages and that is why we decided to go back to IHOP. We’re excited for our young children to grow up in this environment. We want to be with people who don’t just talk about prayer but who actually do pray and who are sold out to Jesus. I’m not saying there aren’t people who pray and are sold out for Jesus in other churches and cities, it just that there are so many in the IHOP community that it rubs off on you. It’s an adventure every Sunday during the meet-and-greet meeting people from different parts of the country and world who’ve come here and hearing what God is doing in their lives. It is said that 20-30 years ago there were only a handful of prayer rooms around the world and now there are thousands so it is not just a fad in Kansas City, it’s a movement that God is doing in the earth. Most of the other prayer rooms have no affiliation with IHOP that I know of. One final note, is that there is no teaching I’ve ever heard that God’s work is exclusive to IHOP, in fact, just the opposite as other ministries and ministers are highly regarded and prayed for. At a summer evangelism outreach in KC last year one of the goals was to get new converts plugged into a church and it didn’t matter if it was FCF, just a bible based church so they would be discipled. If you’re interested at all in IHOP then visit for yourself or talk to people actually involved and don’t make conclusions based simply on blog posts.

  307. The author of “I lived with Mike Bickle and his family for several years…” has given me permission to repost some of our most recent correspondence:

    Mike’s brother, Pat and I got along great and quickly became the best of friends. I moved in with them six weeks later and became Pat’s care taker. Pat and I watched Mike make his churches and for a while I began to think he might be alright. Then the Augustine thing happened and everything changed over night.

    Augustine Acola was a little demon prophet that came to our church in St. Louis and who first prophesied to Mike. I wasn’t there the day he came but later heard about it from Mike when he was telling Pat. He said that God had confirmed to him, what was already in his heart, through Augustine’s prophecy, which was in part ‘that he should leave St. Louis and return to KC to begin a great work of God that will impact the whole world and usher in the End Times.’

    Now I don’t know where Augustine came from but I do know that he was gay and had several drug problems and later died of AIDS but the character of the man didn’t seem to matter to Mike. In fact he would say for years to follow that ” the content of the words were more important than character of the messenger.” thus opening the door to all types of demonic doctrines and false prophets to flood in the front door,of which Mike would use to further his cause how ever he could and if he couldn’t he would discard them like trash.

    Been there, seen it, watched it happen over and over again. Mike has gone through leaderships like most people go through underwear. If he needed to get rid of somebody he would call on his prophets to prophesy something against them and then have them removed because they are not worthy to serve any longer.

    There is a real deep dark side to IHOP. On the outside it looks like a great move of God, where people are being trained to do the good things of God but the foundations are established on lies and deceit. Prophecy is used to control people and exalt those that buy into the lies and if anyone questions the validity of the ministry it’s used to remove them.

    Now the idea that 24/7 prayer, which seems good, is only the lure used to draw the young, naive and innocent in but the hook is the Commitment Message which is far more controlling and much more sinister. Contemplative prayer is a minor issue compared to the “Commitment message”, which is the one main doctrine that comes straight out of the pits of hell. It is the one main point that all false religions throughout history have built upon and used to control and manipulate their followers and Mike is a master of its use.

    Commitment is everything to the message of IHOP. People are taught to read and study Mike’s testimony and once they have, it is then taught that his testimony has now become their testimony and to walk away from it is to walk away from God. OMG what a wicked and deceitful way to cause young people to commit to such a useless cause.

    Just think about that for a minute. Young, naive, innocent children are taught that “once they have read Mike’s testimony,” (which has been greatly altered to make him appear as a saint) it becomes their testimony and to walk away from it is to walk away from God.

    1 John 2:27 became my mantra, But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true–it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.

    I attended IHOP and in the beginning kind of liked it, it was quiet and had good music and I could sit in the presence of God and study his Word without interruption. But the insanity came back when Mike and his cronies would call 5-10-15 day fasts and begin them with what I call ‘Shout fests’ where everybody would go crazy for hours on end. I couldn’t take it so I left, never to return.

    My IHOP friendships dwindled from that group and I lost contact with almost everyone that I once knew which is good thing. Most of the married couples that we knew got divorced, their children became delinquents and the instability that was built in them by the Mike-doctrine left all of them ship wrecked.

    Any questions or comments for him may be directed here and I’ll pass them along to him.

  308. Andy,
    I am quite aware that IHOP has a measure of sincere Christians that are quite dedicated to the work, My post however is directed at it’s foundations, The things that Mike did and said to bring about the movement. Now I know that because you have committed yourself to IHOP that you strongly believe that what is being done is good, right and correct and that the people that surround you confirm that belief daily. But to say that IHOP is a Bible based church is based upon your understanding of what that means and not necessarily on the general consensus of the world wide Christian community. “Bible based” is a matter of perception. The Jews during the time of Christ believed that they were Bible based…

    Also your reference to prayer rooms in the past is also based upon your own perception, Which is historically incorrect, you may have only known of a few prayer rooms but that doesn’t reflect the vast number of vigilant prayer warriors that live in secret. Long before IHOP ever existed prayers were continually offered up to God, but not as public spectacle like the flamboyancy of IHOP but rather in the privacy of one’s own home and closet as Christ admonished us to do.
    which I refer to as the place where Jesus tell’s us to do so.

    Biblically speaking there is no where within the Word of God that the IHOP model for prayer and supplication is ever spoken of plainly, That is because it does not exist. The model for prayer that IHOP promotes solely comes from the mind and heart of Mike Bickle, Nowhere else. it is something he alone has concocted out of his own desires. If you take Mike out of the equation IHOP does not exist.

    My only question to you would be, “how much of a lie can be in the truth before the whole thing becomes a lie?”

    I know and have been friends with many members of KCF and IHOP families for years and in my experience with them, I have found they are more the disciples of Mike than of Christ. They quote Mike constantly and promote his form of Christianity and many those are now shipwreck in their faith. IHOP has an agenda and that agenda is borne out of the heart of Mike Bickle and him alone.

    I have been a born again Christian the better part of 50 years and in that time, my life has always been completely devoted to prayer. Prayer is the way of life for a true son of God.

    I have seen many movements in the evangelical church over the years and most of them are led by men just like Mike and all of them are built on the promise to usher in the end times.it is the lure that is used to attract the naive. it is also often times accompanied with music and prayer. Go and look at the history of Calvary Chapel, and Chuck Smith, who originally began as a part of Paul Cains ministries in the 50s. He built a massive following based upon his knowledge of when Christ would return and he died having never seen it come to pass.

    Mike is no different in that the idea that IHOP can usher in the end times through 24/7 prayer is false it’s just not Biblcally correct, because it’s not something that men has any part in,

    Matthew 24: 35, plainly says Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

    Mike’s profession that he knows about when it will take place is a lie, plain and simple.

    “How much of a lie is in the truth before it is all a lie?” A little leaven…

    Mike has plainly said that Christ’ return will take place in this generation… That is a lie. He can’t know that. it is impossible for him to know that not even the Son himself knows when that hour will be.

  309. Andy,
    I appreciate your inquiry, My post was written about ten years ago in response to what was being reported about the IHOP internship program. it seems that Mike has rewritten the past and made a testimony that is more suitable to his agenda. Interns are told to study Mike’s testimony and once they have gotten a good handle on it, they are tested for what they have learned. Then they are told that Mike’s testimony has now become theirs and that to walk away from it is to walk away from God.

    Now you may know better than I if this is happening but if it is don’t you think that is cause for alarm?

    Also there is an inordinate amount of chanting in tongues and TM type activities as well as a lot of a prophetic language being used throughout the public prayer meetings, all of which are things that are addressed in the Bible as being out of order.

    Transcendental Meditation is the use of the mind to visualize a spiritual position. Mike teaches Interns to focus or visualize themselves in a deep and passionate love affair with Christ. Passion For Christ is the cleaned up version of that activity.

    I was there in the beginning, and experienced first hand much of what was said and done to innocent naive people by a uncontrollable leadership of false teachers and so called prophets. The fall out of these times was immense and the casualty lists which included broken marriages, broken homes, delinquent children and shipwrecked lives, were swept under the rug as though they never happened.

    I was there when the Vineyard and KC fellowship combined and all chaos broke out, I was there when time after time false prophets prophesied that Pat Bickle would be healed of which was something that never happened. I was there and watched people lie about their power to heal others and watched people die from a preventable disease because they wanted to believe God for their healing. I was there when the bad doctrines and confusion ruled the day

    I was there when false teachers lied about being taken up to the third heavens and physically standing before Christ.

    I was there and watched people bark like dogs in the aisles at a public meeting and shout and carry on like they were filled with a spirit..

    I was there and heard Bob Jones falsely prophesy over and over again , and to hear Mike defend him all the way to the end. I was there and heard Paul Cain say things that never came to pass over and over again.and was there when he slipped back into alcoholism and Homosexuality, and i was there to heard Mike say “it’s more the content of the words than the character of the man that matters”

    I was there in the beginning and know what I saw heard and experienced. These experiences are the things that lay in the foundations of IHOP

  310. Thanks for your post and thoughts.

    It appears to me that you have a message to the world that contemplative prayer is new age. I think that’s great that you have figured that out about yourself. I commend you.

    BTW, I also have a personal message to the world, and that is that humans should not consume any animal products. I believe God revealed this to me and I will trumpet this to any who will listen. So, when I visited John Hagee’s church and his son was doing the announcements, he spoke of an upcoming church barbeque and said, “around here, beef is what’s for dinner.” I was offended and instantly realized that this man (and likely the whole church) were hererics, per my personal definition. And I knew I had to warn people about this, lest they get sucked in, and start eating beef, and then die early due to cancer which is scientifically proven to be linked to consumption of animal products. I almost stood up right there in the middle of the service to call out this false teaching, but I bit my tongue.

    Now I am trying to decide if I will start a blog to tell people to watch out for John Hagee.

    Here’s my point: You believe contemplative prayer is new age… And I disagree. Guess what, there is no right or wrong answer and no way to prove it. So, we get caught up in arguing over this topic AND other things like whether or not Christians should eat animals… Which I will fight to the end about and I can quote you Bible verses that will prove not one born again believer should ever eat animals! And I’m serious.

    Another point I read is that you don’t believe a person can be born again in an instant. Fine, but I totally disagree. I was born again in one day, one hour, and I can point to that very moment. But I respect your opinion and I hope you can see that while you believe me to be wrong, and I you, neither of us can prove each other wrong. That’s because we are talking about opinions.

    One final statement. I I have seen so many people hurt emotionally by joining churches or ministries which did not support, endorse or champion their personal causes. This has happened to me personally when I joined churches that have practically mocked me for my diet. The important element is for me to understand what it is that I’m upset about and to focus on that…as opposed to turning an entire church into a “home for heretics” because I’ve been disappointed or offended that we don’t agree about something.

    There’s an interesting chapter in the book by Peter Wagner called, “Why Bill Bright is not your Pastor.” You may find any book by Peter Wagner to be questionable, but it’s interesting to me that his chapter is designed to say that Bill Bright, who was the leader of Campus Crusade for Christ, had absolutely zero pastoral skills. And that’s because he instead had leadership giftings. Nevertheless many people treated him like a spiritual leader and even like a pastor. But we need to remember that we need not hold Bill Bright in any position of pastoral authority. And we should not seek love, affirmation, attention or anything that we would secure through pastoral services, from him. This same dynamic is much more problematic in the local church where people who are gifted in leadership, and who are absolutely not gifted in pastoral abilities, dub themselves a senior pastor. The flock then understandably looks to them for pastoral guidance, care, love, affirmation and encouragement, etc.; most of which, or all of which, they are unquestionably incapable of giving. Because they’re not spiritually gifted as pastors, but as task-oriented and cold-hearted leaders. Just imagine the difference between a medical doctor and an army sergeant. You don’t want those two people to switch and you don’t want some jerk sergeant treating your wounds.

    I’m not saying you personally have been hurt by people like Mike Bickle but only that if you have, remember that he should never be calling himself a senior pastor, and we should not look to him to be our pastor. I’m so glad he got out of the job of pastoring and got out of the job of even being the leader of a church. The same thing happened to Ralph Winter with the US Center for World Mission, Bill Bright at Campus Crusade, and countless other individuals who have realized that their goal ultimately is not to lead a church, but to lead a mission organization. See, in a church you actually have to take care of people–that is the Sheep; but in a mission organization all you have to take care of are the tasks. And just for reference pastors take care of sheep and leaders take care of tasks.

    And that’s why one of the biggest tragedies of the local church is that we allow people who are not pastoral to call themselves pastors, to take leadership and assume pastoral responsibility and then not deliver. If that happened to you or any readers, and you’re feeling hurt, just know that it’s not your fault. You were told this person was going to be pastoral to you and they weren’t. You did nothing wrong–the fault is completely not with you. But if we do get hurt it’s imperative that we deal with that hurt accurately, and not let it turn into reasons for us to attack back, or attack others onto whom we might project our anger.

    For me personally I would have preferred a post that said something like, “I believe contemplative prayer is New Age and because Ihop is a Prayer Ministry and I think that they allow contemplative prayer, therefore I think they are new age. And because of that, I would like to warn everybody I know to stay far away from them. Also IHOP believes that you can become born again in an instant which I disagree with and therefore I think they are lost in heresy. And because of these two issues I believe IHOP is it cult.”

    To me that would have been a more accurate accusation then the somewhat rambling blog post you have, which both at times praises Mike Bickle and demonizes him. It’s seems from the comments that some other readers are also confused.

    Anyway, thanks again for the discussion.

  311. Man, thanks for the first paragraph of what you wrote. Beyond that, I think you’re into some major messed up theology. I’ll leave it at that.

  312. Thanks Yacov, very well written, the blog was written over a very long period of time and many things were taken out of context.
    Your comments about whether a person can or cannot be born again instantly is not really the subject but since you want to discuss it, Jesus used the term “Born Again” to reference an event that must take place. The use of the word ‘Born’ likens the event to that takes place in the natural realm. So to be conceived and born in the same moment is not likely . Jesus made the connection of one needing to be born of God and used the reference of a birth to differentiate that event as to be unique in itself. John later addresses the condition in 1John in order to allow us to understand the difference of one that is truly born of God and one that is not.
    To be born again is an event that is different from anything else that a person may experience in their life, and just because someone says that they are born of God does not necessarily mean that they are because it is not based upon what they believe but rather upon an actual event that took place.
    Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus and according to all accounts we know that he was a believer in Christ and yet Jesus told him that he needed to be Born again.
    Religions definitions for what it means to be born of God are based upon a lot of variables, one of which is that to be successful the need for a church to provide a sure salvation for their congregation is key. But since they cannot make a person born of God because that is something that is completely reserved to God they have redefined what it means to be so and how to accomplish it, so that many can receive it.
    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

  313. I don’t have anything to say about IHOP or Mike Bickle right now, but I know a bitter Christian when I hear or see one because I’m a bitter Christian. And annunk, you’re a bitter Christian.

  314. No sir. I’ve been warning parents against IHOP since 2008 when I lost my child to that place. But you’re welcome to your opinion. God brought my child out. I don’t want anyone else to go through what I went through.

  315. You know Just because you have a label to call someone that disagrees with you doesn’t mean its the truth. Tagging and bagging those that oppose you or your beliefs is a typical ignorant response that leads to a self justifying and self righteous life style.

  316. First let me be clear…. I am a mature Christian who has walked faithfully (not perfectly) but faithfully with the Lord for over 30 years. I may not know Mike Bickle personally but I do know about King David. He was a man of many flaws… a murder, lier, adulter and yes even lacked decernment and was decieved many times and yet God called him a man after His heart. My friend, even David knew not to touch Gods anointed (Saul). It’s a very serious matter to go after God’s children and we will be accountable for that.

  317. The fact people are still discussing this 6 years later tells me Mike Buckle has handled his ministry recklessly and unbiblically. No one told him to be high profile minister, that was his ambition. God never told any of his disciples to be famous, start big revivals, he said the meek shall I hermit the earth.
    If you can listen to his sermons and think that it’s all biblical you need to read the word more. There is one mediator between man and God and that’s Jesus, not a super apostle from KC who blurts out prophecies like Disney craps out propaganda.
    These new apostolic movements are evil in my opinion, as much as I have tried to be understanding, the fruits I see are fruits of laziness, desire to escape reality and religious bigotry.

  318. First of all Debbie your maturity in this type of religion is not a representation of what a true born of God believer is because in your defense of IHOP you likened Mike Bickle to David and to draw that line means you are desperately deceived. Secondly my accountability is to God and not you. Your understanding of accountability is what has kept you locked into a cult. Normally I would leave a scripture for you in accordance to the Truth but you obviously don’t have ears to hear.

  319. FROM 11/24/18 which I had written on another site. I am closing down shop. I wish nothing but God’s warmest blessings to all who visit this site. I will leave it open but will not be approving any comments.
    In Christ, Annunk

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